Talk:Brotherhood of the Rose

Various facts about the Brotherhood

I've been through all of the U9 texts and Notable Ultima's transcripts and books for U7, and I can confirm almost none of the nonobvious facts from this article. I've search for the strings "brotherhood" and for the characters named as members:

1. "the life of the monks and nuns in the abbey is not as strict as many people think" Why? Because they don't practise silence? And how "many" people think this? Does the Brotherhood have nuns?
2. "since following the principle of love also means to give the members of the order their free room to follow their own personal passion" I can't find that.
3. "they live humble lives" Is that just assumed because that's what Earth monks do?
4. "The order had went throughout the times without being impressed by change, regardless how radical it was" I can't find that.
5. "The monks are famous for their fine wine, which is rumored to be the best of all of Britannia" This certainly goes well beyond what's in The Silence of Chastity.

AngusM 04:25, August 13, 2010 (UTC)

I think you should axe most of the unsourced statements. As for the wine, there might be a little more info; in U7, Perrin says "The monks who reside there are famous for their ability to produce exquisite wine. Thou shouldst try some. The monks have been making it for more than three hundred years". The monk Kreg says "The monks' wine is renowned throughout all of Britannia, or so I thought." Reyna says "They are said to make delicious wine." Goth says "The monks nearby make excellent wine". So there are several references to the wine being famous. Nonone says it is the best in all Britannia, though, so you may want to reword that part.--Sega381 01:13, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, those mealy-mouthed quotes don't seem to justify "rumored to be the best of all of Britannia". I think "held in high esteem" would be safe enough.

However, 2 and 4 seem to be more than the typical embellishments found around here, they look more like an over active imagination, or they are based on sources yet to be revealed. I'll give everything but 5 more time to work itself out. AngusM 03:23, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Eliminating another potential source, I can confirm there is nothing to be gleaned from Taylor's entry in the U7 clue book that would support the cited points. --Terilem 04:00, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

1 seems to be based on the differences between the Empath monks and real Earth monks. I think 2 may somehow be based on the same reference, as well as 3. The three points somehow try to point the similarities and differences between Empath monks and Earth monks, but I guess they are more embelishment than anything else. I have the impression that 4 just mentions that there wasn't major changes in the Brotherhood from U4 to U7 (though there were some minor changes, as the silence vow). That's my impression.--Sega381 04:30, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

We can have references??? Damn! Where have you been all my life? 'Looks like I've got a new toy.

Ok, so I gather from what you are saying is that 1-4 are not wild flights of fancy, but just embellishments, and therefore inappropriate. It seems to me that they don't even have any basis in propriety and therefore should just be removed. I mean, I don't even see those lines trying to make a statement that needs to be made about the monks. AngusM 22:18, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I've been slowly adding references to this wiki. They are really useful sometimes, specially at articles like Timeline of the Ultima Universe. I'd be happy to have some else help me add references to articles. Btw, the format for the references I'm using is not that well thought; if you care to improve it, I'll be happy to update referenced articles.

As for the lines, ok, they just got axed.--Sega381 03:03, August 17, 2010 (UTC)