User talk:The Ultra-Mind

Archive

My talk page material from Wikia is pretty out-of-date, but if you want to see it, you can look at my old Wikia talk page (note the old Wikia s/n).

Welcome back

Hey there, welcome back! Glad you made it to our new home!--Sega381 18:13, 10 November 2010 (PST)

Thanks! I missed the Codex, but... it was worth it. The Ultra-Mind 15:01, 11 November 2010 (PST)

No Personal Attacks

Tribun toes the line a lot. But the long personal attack you made on my talk page is not what I meant by "come to me". Please review the no personal attacks policy for how to properly handle the situations like this. -- Fenyx4 15:42, 4 December 2010 (PST)

Ok, I've looked at it again, but it's a bit weak on how to handle situations like this, so I still don't know what you meant by "come to me". I had a lot of colourful things to say, and to strictly adhere to this new policy would have emptied it. The Ultra-Mind 15:24, 5 December 2010 (PST)

Sorry for not being clear the "come to me" would be referring to "Recurring personal attacks that do not stop after reasoned requests to cease should be reported to any active site admin on their talk page" and/or "If you are too angry to respond without violating this policy, consider taking a short break from the wiki, or contact an admin". Just bringing it to my attention (a link and stating that you consider it to be a personal attack) is sufficient and I'll do my best to deal with it from there. -- Fenyx4 22:54, 5 December 2010 (PST)

I see. The problem with that is that I don't feel these issues could have been best described in terms of "personal attacks". In fact, I'd say that in most cases, it would be petty to try to make a case for that. However, what I was addressing was no less egregious or disruptive, both directly and indirectly, requiring leadership, just not on those terms. The Ultra-Mind 13:32, 6 December 2010 (PST)

Spell article's name poll

Hey there, I think you may want to contribute to the Forum:POLL: Spell article's merging policy. Thanks!--Sega381 17:09, 6 March 2011 (PST)

Singularization

Hey, just thought I'd drop you a note about this before you spend time making corrections elsewhere. For awhile now we've more or less adopted the standard that singular they can be used as a gender-neutral pronoun when referring to the Avatar. I realise that not everyone regards it as acceptable English, but its usage is widespread and often makes it a lot easier to get around the he/she issue here. --Terilem 21:00, 2 September 2012 (PDT)

Uh, ok... I missed that discussion. I thought this issue was settled a while ago, with broad consensus and much discussion: just don't use pronouns for the player character. The style guide still goes that way and I don't think there's even talk of changing it on the talk page. There was good reason for this, the most compelling of which, I think, is that the documentation usually used this style. I don't think it ever used the plural. The Ultra-Mind 14:14, 3 September 2012 (PDT)

Yeah, you're right. I do recall a discussion about using they, but I have no idea where that took place. I guess it just informally slipped into common usage. I mainly spoke up about it here because I see it used frequently (heck I've used it myself), in case you weren't aware of the mammoth task ahead if you were to correct it all. Plus, your edit to the Tobias article presents a tricky example, i.e. cutting short a direct quote just to avoid the pronoun. --Terilem 19:58, 3 September 2012 (PDT)

Thanks for the heads up, but I was intending to go on a massive dragon hunt for the theys as surely as I was intending to correct everything else with the Codex overnight :) But I do apply Codex policy when I do edits. Now if you think that the quote issue is a problem, the solution just requires a little of the creativity that we usually apply. Check this out... The Ultra-Mind 20:32, 4 September 2012 (PDT)

Title templates

Howdy Ultra-Mind! Just wanted to let you know the existing title templates can be used in links, formatted as follows: [[Ultima IX | {{Ultima IX}}]] --Terilem (talk) 12:27, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

I'm scratching my head a bit. Perhaps you can tell me what exactly is this project good for? Right now it seems to only save a few keystrokes.--Tribun (talk) 12:31, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

The templates both italicize the game titles and prevent their Roman numerals from appearing on a new line (poor formatting) without using &nbsp during edits. --Terilem (talk) 12:39, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

Oh dear, how I hate that code string &nbsp. There was a time when that thing was used inflationary, making editing a chore - especially ripping that code out again. In that case I can understand the project, though I probably won't use it out of sheer habit.--Tribun (talk) 12:43, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

Make it a habit! :) It ensures proper formatting. --Terilem (talk) 12:50, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

I realize there are alternatives. Knowing that, I still felt there could be a better set of templates. I take it not everyone agrees? The Ultra-Mind (talk) 12:45, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

By all means, create new templates if you wish. I just wasn't sure if you knew the current ones could be used this way and wanted to save you the extra work in case. --Terilem (talk) 12:50, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

Awright, well if no one has any objections (like, not even the naming convention) then I'll go ahead and complete the set. The Ultra-Mind (talk) 13:30, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

Need your opinion

Im testing a new location infobox and new location picture with Britain. Please tell me what you think of it and compare that to the old location pictures. I felt that it's about time the location articles get cleaned up. --Tribun (talk) 20:33, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Hmm... I hope you weren't looking for a short answer, because I kinda feel like talking about it and inspiring others to come up w/opinions.

I always liked the old 4-colour style, because it was simple and easy to understand (brings me back to a bachelor-level course in technical writing where I was told that diagrams are better than photographs, because photos have too many details and are confusing). But what you've got is pretty easy to understand, too, w/its contrasting colours. Besides, the wiki does seem a wee bit sterile and could do w/a little beatification. I'm not in favour of just adding beauty for beauty's sake, but a good way to make it look better is to improve upon images that wouldn't even take full advantage of CGA graphics! Something else to consider is that the more detail we give a map, the greater the risk of favouring one game's geography over another's (read: geography changes from game-to-game).

So the cons against the new style seem a little weak, so I guess I lean a little bit in favour of the new style.

On the other hand... you know how I feel about non-canonical material, and the further we get away from the 4-colour style, the more fanon we get. Where did you get that image? Maybe the choice isn't between the two styles and we might also consider another improved style that is also canonical. The Ultra-Mind (talk) 13:52, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

I actually did think about your points and created a new image that's much closer to what I think you feel is better by being simpler. The discussion is moved to my talk page, so please answer there.--Tribun (talk) 19:48, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

Serious Codex Overhaul

Just a little explanation for the heavy activity over the past weeks (well, actually months). Somehow, I developed the need to finally fix a lot of issues I saw with the Codex, like non-standardized formatting in categories, picture clutter, lack of pictures and/or content and so on... Thus I worked like mad and thanked all heavens for the galleries that finally allow me to put all the needed pictures in the articles.

I'm by now mostly done with the in-universe categories, with only NPCs, Weapons, Armour and Ammunition remaining. However, I sort of shy back from doing the NPCs due to the sheer mass of them. I'll most likely first clean up the out-of-universe articles like walkthroughs and cheats and well as other stuff.

Now, I probably won't do anything until the weekend, so perhaps a little feedback on the massive effort of the past weeks would be good to see what you guys think of it.--Tribun (talk) 23:48, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

For one thing, I would be easier to critique your work if you put summaries explaining what work you did and/or your rationalization.

But standards are good to keep. Of the standards I've seen you keep, of the work I've browsed (a vanishingly small fraction of the total), I would do most of it the same way as you, except:

1. Use the templates. They serve a purpose
2. I don't know if there's a standard about this (I've looked) but when making a hyperlink, I think it looks weird when only part a word is linked, such as would happen w/[[Necromancer]]s.

And since your interested in images, IMO, the greatest need is w/the U9 images. I know, no one's idea of a high priority game, but the optics I think is a problem for the wiki. Unlike other games, OSI doesn't spoon-feed you ideal portraits that look good in an article. Consequently, the images we tend to have are too zoomed out, allow for too much irrelevant detail and don't have very good light.

Other than that, keep up the good work! The Ultra-Mind (talk) 19:37, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Replying here so we can keep the discussion all in one place. I appreciate the opportunity to weigh in.

I'd reiterate The Ultra-Mind's point about edit summaries. I too haven't had a chance to look through everything, but so far I have a few minor questions about some of the formatting choices:

1. Why "Spell Description" in spell articles when we use "Description" everywhere else?
2. "Effectiveness of this Weapon" seems a bit verbose for what could be said in one or two words. It also doesn't feel fitting to me to see it in articles about tools (e.g. shovels) that aren't primarily classified as weapons. Could we instead use something more concise and universal like "Effectiveness" or "Combat Effectiveness"?
3. Why the indentation in the Effectiveness sections?

Overall though, great work. I agree that all our articles should be standardized into the sectioned format, and the galleries are a convenient tool for adding images (although, depending on the article, I think the occasional thumbnail in the main body is still fine if it supplements the topic at hand).

Last but not least, I have to say this: from what I've seen of the change log it's immediately apparent you've been putting in truly remarkable hours here on a daily basis for the last several weeks/months. I don't know how you've managed it, but it should be recognized. Well done. --Terilem (talk) 10:30, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Hello, now that I have time again, I'll answer the questions as best as I can.

• Sadly, most in-text templates are more difficult for me to use than if I just type it in the normal way (don't ask why, I don't know myself). I do use navigational and infobox templates, since these are highly useful, indeed.
• When a plural is used of an article with a singular name, I normally simply put the extra letters directly behind the intra-link, because they are then displyed together with it. Sadly, this does not go when an apostroph is used,
• Sadly, Ultima IX is exactly the one game I won't use for making screenshots (apart from the cinematics), especially sine I only own the German version. It's the same problem I have with Ultima VIII, where screenshots without text are fine, but otherwise I can't use them, thus I have to rely on outside sources.
• "Spell Description" was intentional. Since there are SO MANY spells, I decided the spells should have an article section of their own.
• The effectiveness text was already there and I simply re-used it. But you are right in so far, that for tools I will alter it to "Effectiveness as a Weapon". The indentation is on purpose, since the articles already have so many bullet points, I felt saving on some of them would be good.

Well I do manage this through sheer dedication. I'm already back at work, as you have probably already seen.--Tribun (talk) 21:03, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Hey Tribun, thank you for the explanations.

There was a broader point I was trying to make regarding the "Spell Descriptions" and "Effectiveness of this Weapon" headers, which is that it's a good habit in writing to eliminate redundant/excessive wording wherever possible (e.g. in a spell article, it should be already be self-evident that "Description" refers to the spell in question without further clarification; "Effectiveness of this Weapon" can be simplified to "Weapon Effectiveness" or even "Effectiveness", etc.). Small details like these make a difference to the reader and I've been trying to improve upon this in my own writing. Here is a brief guide that illustrates the practice better than I can. Since we seem to have lost Blu3vib3 and her writing expertise for the foreseeable future, it behooves those of us remaining to aim for as high a standard as possible.

Regarding the indentation, I think the reason it looks out of place (pun intended) to me is that it's not clear what the section is trying to be. Is it a list? If so, it can be indented but needs a lead-in sentence and bullet points. Or is each line simply a new paragraph? If so, they shouldn't be indented. If the goal is to avoid bullet points, I'd recommend committing to the latter format rather than keeping a foot in both. --Terilem (talk) 12:56, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

I'll also answer here to avoid splitting the conversation. I wanted to say great job Tribun! I unfortunately don't have the time to go over this in detail, but it seems to be a great improvement; thanks for all your work! I am happy to see several of you still active in the wiki (unlike me, I only stop by every once in a while...). I agree with Terilem's and Ultra-Mind's comments, btw. If I have some time I'll go over some changes and may have a few more suggestions. --Sega381 (talk) 18:37, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

A little update: I'm finally done with Items, equipment, weapons and armour. That had been quite the chore. Especially Weapon Values and Armour Values had been a pain to re-tool, as the code was such a massive mess (who in all names created that?), that I pretty much had to rip it all out and re-do the tables from the beginning. Now however it should be far easier on the eyes and more ordered as well.

Now however I feel somewhat burnt out and want to do other things for a while. I'm by now pretty certain I won't touch the NPCs anytime soon beyond party members and especially important ones. The sheer number of Lore to add from the cluebooks alone would be massive. What I do want to do is to re-do all the sales tables in shops to include the icons for the items in question. While that's no problem for VI, VII, VII/2 and VIII, for IX I again need help to get the icons for all the crap they sell beside the normal stuff.--Tribun (talk) 16:06, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

What do you have in mind for the party members? Blu3vib3's overhauls are already the gold standard for NPC articles in my opinion, so I'd be reluctant to see them altered in any significant way. --Terilem (talk) 13:53, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Nah, I mainly mean cleaning up the layout: putting pictures into galleries and adding new pictures to those, adding lore quotes (there are actually quite a number of these in the manuals and cluebooks) and adding possible new trivia. The article text will only be altered if the article itself had not been touched by her (a few SI NPC articles are like that).--Tribun (talk) 15:05, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Oh okay, cool. Thanks for clarifying. --Terilem (talk) 15:04, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

When we had the ability to see what most popular pages were, it revealed Weapon/Amour Values to be among them, so it's good that a greater proportion of love is given to them. The Ultra-Mind (talk) 14:43, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Dungeon Rooms

Stop! Before you continue, there is a good reason why the dungeon rooms are not in the main Ultima IV category!--Tribun (talk) 16:54, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Ok, what reason's that? There should be some kind of connection (including a link) to the game, but the articles I edited didn't have one. The Ultra-Mind (talk) 17:09, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Just put the "Ultima IV" category into the "Dungeon Rooms" category. That way, the category becomes a sub-category of it. Perhaps the Dungeon Rooms category should also be renamed to "Ultima IV Dungeon Rooms" (though that would mean having to change all rooms articles), since right now it's only Ultima IV dungeon rooms. If we ever get to adding Ultima V dungeon rooms, we can always create a new category.--Tribun (talk) 17:19, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Well, I don't have a lot of experience w/categories and I'm not certain about the finer points of what you're saying, so I'll leave it in your capable hands. Whatever gets done, I think that the reader should be able to plainly see that it is an Ultima IV article and there should be a link that has "Ultima IV" in its name. The Ultra-Mind (talk) 17:30, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

I'm not at my best right now, so the explanation probably didn't make sense. I've done it, just added a category to the "Dungeon Rooms" category and now it should be fine.--Tribun (talk) 18:17, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

I take it there's no category solution to this? Take U4-Deceit-L8-Room-14 for example. The only indication that this belongs to Ultima IV is the cryptic "U4" in its name. I think there should be "Ultima IV" somewhere on the page and a link that, w/out too much indirection, would get the reader to Ultima IV. Come to think of it, the same should be done for Deceit.

Anyway, take it easy for now and we can talk about it later. Maybe we can come up w/a bot solution. It looks to me that what we'd want would require a huge amount of repetitious edits. The Ultra-Mind (talk) 18:46, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

NPC Edits

Since you regularly edit NPC articles, if you do that could you also do clean-up work? That mainly means putting pictures into galleries and standardizing the formatting (Ultima IX NPCs for some reason lack the "Description" header). It certainly would make my life easier once I get to start working on them.--Tribun (talk) 15:21, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I suppose a lot of my edits lately have been to NPCs, even though I wasn't targeting them.

Galleries aren't really my focus. As for standards, I don't mind applying them to existing material, if you were specific about what other standards you think should be applied. The Ultra-Mind (talk) 17:17, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Major development:

After lots of hard and difficult work I did manage to completely overhaul all NPC articles for the Age of Armageddon. I squeezed the manuals and cluebooks (the in-universe parts) dry for lore quotes, standardized the article formatting and shop tables (which also are complete now), put pictures into galleries and improved several articles for Ultima VII and Serpent Isle. It's only the Ultima IX NPCs, where the description text is mostly unchanged (and thus in need of overhaul).

That had been tons of hard work and next will be the NPCs for the Age of Enlightenment.

Btw., something I wonder. How do you select the articles you improve? I can't really see any kind of pattern, it seems completely at random to me.--Tribun (talk) 18:30, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Yes, well it is fine work. Well done!

I've just been going through Bluevibe's contributions and looking at her changes plus everything after. I find the pages she's overhauled to be the easiest to edit, at least, where my head's at right now. Of course, following the links on some of these articles tends to snowball and I wind up changing stuff Blue's never laid eyes on. The Ultra-Mind (talk) 21:03, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

The only thing missing are several item icons for shop tables in Ultima IX - the stuff the falls under "other stuff". I have no way to get those.--Tribun (talk) 22:31, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Why can't you get them? What's an example of an article that could use them? The Ultra-Mind (talk) 22:33, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

It's because I can't run the game due to technichal reasons. An example for all kind of missing icons would be Herzog. From there, the shop category can be accessed. The newer icons for Ultima IX icons I did upload recently were extracted from screenshots with a pain program, so they are not optimal.--Tribun (talk) 22:51, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

So you don't run Windoze? Or do you need a 10-year-old Windoze to get the job done? The Ultra-Mind (talk) 22:52, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

I don't even know what that's supposed to be.--Tribun (talk) 22:57, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

What anti-fanboys of Micro$oft call "MS-Windows".

Another problem w/U9 articles comes to mind: the screen caps are kind of grainy and the foreground doesn't stand out. For all the other games, how to get a screen cap was a no-brainer, but w/the U9 engine, it requires a little technique. Maybe the next time I'm looking for something to do, I can gather the screen caps you're after. Don't hold your breath, though. In the meantime you can put together a wishlist. The Ultra-Mind (talk) 23:04, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

A ton of screenshots have to be redone anyway. I don't know who did them originally, but they screwed up the aspect ratio, with predictable results. Lots of other screenshots I was forced to take over from other sources, thus they are badly compressed. It simply is such a pain to get good screenshots from the game.--Tribun (talk) 23:13, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

U8 spell infoboxes

A note for you: the name of the school of magic in the infobox for U8 spells has to be capitalized, otherwise it breaks the code of the background color behind the name in the infobox. I thought I better tell you since I had to repair it multiple times.--Tribun (talk) 19:56, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

So I did. At first I was leaving them proper, but then I realized we hadn't made an exception for Pagan professions. But I've changed the infobox to make the comparison case-insenitive, so we shouldn't have that problem anymore.

However, I see that the practice isn't called a "profession", but a "school". I'll hold off on changing any more of the "schools" until we have more eyes on it. Thx for the heads up.--The Ultra-Mind (talk) 20:46, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Hello There

Hello. I am TigerBlazer and I am a new user on this wiki. I was wondering, since you have been here for a very long time, what kind of pages here are in need of improvement since I would like to find some to improve.

Welcome to the Codex! We can always use fresh blood.

Your number 1 priority on the Codex should be whatever you want. We all have different visions for this wiki, and those passions, consensus permitting, have made for what I think to be one of the best fan wikis out there.

But if you want pointers on which I think is the wiki's greatest weakness ATM: the U9 screenshots. Unlike nearly ever other Ultima, making screenshots of U9 requires some technique. See the talk page for discussion on the matter thus far. I would be making these screenshots myself, but I've been pre-empted for one reason or another.

Also, I'd recommend scanning the style guide to get some idea of how the wind is blowing.--The Ultra-Mind (talk) 14:24, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the help, although I absolutely despise Ultima IX so I might not do the screenshots. However, I have been considering adding a lot for info on Akalabeth (My third favorite Ultima behind I and IV) to the wikis, as there are templates for the other games but not that one. I'm also planning to add the reception the games got one their respective pages. TigerBlazer (talk) 17:16, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Oh I hear ya! Ultima IX: The Biggest Computer Game Facepalm Since "All Your Base Are Belong To Us"! But the point isn't Ultima IX; it's the wiki. As long as we have U9 articles we might as well make them look good. But it sounds like you already know what you want to do, so carry on!

If you're going to be contributing to "Reception" sections, it sounds like it's delving into the realm of opinion. I would just want to point out that we've had some gotchas about subjective editing: editors' opinions making it into content or speaking for the fan-base, etc. It's legitimate to say a professional critic had this or that opinion, but these opinions are not canon.--The Ultra-Mind (talk) 18:08, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Alright, I won't add the receptions of the games, and thanks for the help. I have been having a lot of fun on these wikis so far and I'm going be a very active user here when I'm not administrating the other wikis I use (Yes, I'm an administrator on some other wikis. They have a poor reputation but we have improved a lot and being an admin is fun work.) TigerBlazer (talk) 19:26, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

I didn't say you shouldn't include receptions. By all means, if they are from reliable sources, then absolutely include them in the articles about the games. I just want to make sure that what goes into the articles is objective as well as reliable.

Glad to see an editor here w/experience in other wikis. Perhaps it will result in a mutual exchange of idea of how to maintain a wiki. I'm often trying to find ways to craft objective and consistent standards, but only met w/partial success.--The Ultra-Mind (talk) 19:37, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

And this gives me a question: Have you worked on other wikis besides this one? TigerBlazer (talk) 19:04, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Not like I have here. I make about 2 edits on Wikipedia per year. I cleaned up the Ultima pages on the C-64 wiki and I've made enough edits on the Wing Commander wiki to count on one hand, but that's about it.--The Ultra-Mind (talk) 17:11, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

You Might Not Be Able To Help Me With This But...

The main reason I decided to join this wiki was because I cannot get myself to enjoy the Ultima games. The thing is, I could never get into these games. I wanted to join the wiki so I can get a better appreciation of the games but I still cannot bring myself to like them. It's not like I don't like older titles, that is far from the truth (The original Wasteland and the entire Wing Commander series are my favorite games of all time), I just can't seem to get into them, as in I can't play any of these tiles for more than ten minutes before I get bored and switch to something else. I always wanted to spend long hours playing these games because I have always had a deep respect for them (Due to how the series changed the game industry) and I love the world, but now matter how often I bring myself to playing even the titles I claim to be my favorites (Which I have never played for more than an hour in total each), I get bored and stop playing. So the question is: How can I play and enjoy this series, because I really want to like it and get into it, but for some stupid reason I can't enjoy any of them at all. TigerBlazer (talk) 18:07, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Well, the thing is, I feel the same way about it. I just can't get interested in it. But my solution is to be 15 again. At my age, I'm just not feeling it or any other computer games. That's why I joined the wiki: so I can relive the experience this way. So one way or the other, I don't think I can help you.--The Ultra-Mind (talk) 21:12, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

I can't be 15 again. I'm currently 14 :D

Anyway, I got Uniblab to help me on this and he had great advice and I'm starting to have fun with them. Thanks anyway, but I got what I nedded. TigerBlazer (talk) 23:04, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Ah, well then you've got all that youthful enthusiasm to lean on.

I'm glad someone was able to sell you on it, even if it wasn't me. Ultima is among the better memories of my youth. Not having a Mockingboard in those days, I used to listen to my own music and listening to it now always triggers me (in a good way).--The Ultra-Mind (talk) 16:45, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

If you want, you can see my progress through Ultima IV on my userpage. However, it will take a while to finish due my mom only letting me play games on weekends. TigerBlazer (talk) 20:35, 7 September 2021 (UTC)