Talk:Windemere

A few questionable facts

I have a few questions about the sources of the material here. I've been through all the transcripts and signs on Notable Ultima so these questions cannot be answered from there alone:

1. Does Elistaria govern Windemere?
2. Can the keep be called a "stronghold"? I don't quite remember the role it played in the Oppression. It might help to know who else resided there, but I haven't been able to figure that out either.
3. Just how "high-ranking" are these members?
4. What source explains how Windemere disappeared? I assume the collapse it's talking about is the one between U5 and U6. I've been through CONVERSE.A and CONVERSE.B for U6, and it makes no mention of Windemere.

AngusM 04:59, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

1. There seems to be many subtle things implying Elistaria is superior to Thrud but nothing overtly stating it that I can find. He is referred to as her "mercenary cohort". He is but a mercenary while she is a powerful sorceress. Her line "It may be that Thrud has some items that may be useful in your mission." seems to to me like he is being treated as an insubordinate. But none of these very solid evidence.
2. Only Elistaria and Thrud reside there (as well as some daemons and rats but they don't talk). In the U5 cluebook it talks about then serving Blackthorn so well in the Opression that they were rewarded with their own castle. There are two definitions for stronghold both would seem to apply.
3. High-ranking enough to be given a castle.
4. This seems like one of the many "it was in U5 but not in U6 must be due to the Underworld collapsing". I'd love for this to go away. There are a multitude of other ways it could have disappeared.

-- Fenyx4 02:19, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

1. Are there other subtle things? I usually equate "cohort" with "peer". And I see mercenaries as self-employed, and just contracted for certain tasks, not to be subordinate to anyone. And could that quote not be used for a peer, or even a superior?
2. I'm not sure the 2nd definition applies here. Look at the example dictionary.com uses. I see that definition as being a metaphor used to describe grassroots support for something. For the first definition to be applicable, the building would have to be constructed with the intent to repell an army. Some images might help. The best I can think of is that the building is a "keep", and the historical use of a keep is to serve much like a stronghold: a small building, designed to be very secure. I don't know if that's what Origin had in mind.
3. Fair enough. In an organization like the Oppression: high favour = high-ranking.
4. Probably. If someone digs up any evidence justifying that, they can put it back.

AngusM 03:47, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

1. Yeah, like I said nothing solid. I'll take a stab at making it match what is in the cluebook closer.
2. 1st def:It is stated as being castle in the cluebook. stronghold = "a well-fortified place". castle = "a strongly fortified, permanently garrisoned stronghold." Admittedly I cherry picked the def that has stronghold in the definition and arguable the "permanently garrisoned" part doesn't fit. However the definition that fits best in this case would probably be "a fortified, usually walled residence, as of a prince or noble in feudal times" which has "fortified" in the definition just like stronghold. 2nd def: We could probably argue the semantics of that one for awhile but doesn't matter since the 1st one is pretty solid. -- Fenyx4 06:43, August 23, 2010 (UTC)