Talk:De Snel

Verb tense (Gemini's take)

Continuing w/my leverage of Google Gemini, I made a number of changes that I thought were due. Some of its advice was definitely helpful, so I let that make it into the my latest revision.

Also, I asked it what is the most appropriate way of handling verb tense in articles, (something that has come up before, but not really resolved) then vented at it over the problems faced and all the bad solutions I could think of. It told me:

You've identified a common and tricky problem in writing about fictional characters, especially in wikis that cover multiple works in a series. Your proposed solutions each have drawbacks, as you've noted. Here's a breakdown of why they're problematic and what a better approach might be:

**Why Your Proposed Solutions Are Problematic:**

*   **Always from the End of the Game:** This creates a very static view of characters. It makes it difficult to describe their actions and development *within* the game's narrative. For example, describing De Snel's training methods in the past tense when the player can actively receive training from him during the game feels unnatural.
*   **Arbitrary Point in the Game:** This is inconsistent and difficult to maintain across many articles. It would require editors to make subjective decisions about each character, leading to potential conflicts and inconsistencies.
*   **End of the Entire Franchise:** This is the most problematic. It assumes that any character not present in the final installment is dead, which might not be explicitly stated or even implied. It also removes any sense of dynamism from the characters' lives within their own stories.

**A Better Approach: Context-Based Tense**

The best approach is to use tense based on the *context* of what you're describing:

*   **In-Game Events and Actions:** Use the present tense to describe events and actions that occur *within* the game's narrative. This includes things the character *does*, *says*, and *is* during the game.

    *   *Example:* "De Snel *runs* the Library of Scars and *offers* combat training to the Avatar." (This is correct because these actions occur within the game.)

*   **Past Events and Background:** Use the past tense to describe events that happened *before* the game's narrative begins or events that are clearly in the past *within* the game's timeline.

    *   *Example:* "De Snel *served* as the Fellowship's chief assassin before being succeeded by Hook." (This is correct because this is a past event.)

*   **Character's State at the End of Their Appearance:** When discussing the character's ultimate fate or state at the end of their appearance in a specific game or the series, use the past tense if their fate is explicitly stated (e.g., death). If their fate is unknown, you can use phrases like "It is unknown whether..." or "His ultimate fate is uncertain."

    *   *Example:* "De Snel *was killed* by the Avatar after a duel." (If this is the canonical outcome.)
    *   *Example:* "It is unknown whether De Snel survived the Imbalance." (If his fate is not explicitly stated.)

**Applying This to the De Snel Article:**

*   Keep the present tense for describing his role as the head of the Library of Scars and the services he provides.
*   Keep the past tense for describing his time as a Fellowship assassin.
*   Use the past tense to describe his death if that's the canonical outcome.

**Example of Revised Wording:**

Instead of:

"De Snel *offers* the Avatar a "demonstration" of his art, attacking the hero regardless of whether his offer is accepted. DeSnel got killed"

Use:

"De Snel *offers* the Avatar a "demonstration" of his art, attacking the hero regardless of whether his offer is accepted. He *was killed* by the Avatar after a duel." (If that is the canonical outcome).

**Key Advantages of Context-Based Tense:**

*   **Clarity and Accuracy:** It accurately reflects the timeline of events within the fictional world.
*   **Dynamism:** It allows for the description of character development and changes over time.
*   **Consistency:** It provides a clear and objective guideline for editors to follow.
*   **Avoids Unwarranted Assumptions:** It doesn't assume the death of characters whose fate is unknown.

By following this context-based approach, you can create more accurate, engaging, and consistent wiki articles.

So use of present tense in this article is very different from what we've been doing so far, which may only be the reason why it looks weird. I was wondering what people thought about changing articles this way going forward.--The Ultra-Mind (talk) 09:25, 8 January 2025 (MST)