Talk:Time Lord

Could this be a reference to Dr. Who? --85.216.121.214 06:27, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Time Lord in Ultima II?

How do people feel towards that speculatory line about the Time Lord's "implied" involvement in Ultima II? I concede that he would be the most likely candidate to have repaired any timeline damage, but I'm still not entirely comfortable with the comment being there. --Terilem 07:05, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

I think "it is implied" should be changed to "it is possible." This would still make it speculation, but somewhat less grievous. --Polygoncount 07:09, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not convinced there's any need for speculation at all. Like I mentioned in a past talk page, the games stand on their own and it is not our job to rationalize any errors, plot holes or missing information. The Time Lord had not been introduced into the series yet, so why should we even mention him? --Warder Dragon 10:26, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

I'm all for taking it out. -- Fenyx4 13:35, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

I think that, in general, speculation should be removed, because of the same reaons Warder Dragon states. I feel that, however, a little speculation may be ok in the Trivia section of each article, if it is a somewhat pertinent speculation. In this specific case, it may be good to state in the article that there is no mention of the Time Lord being involed with the events of Ultima II. If we put this notice, we are removing the doubt that there may be some relation that no one has looked into yet, and preventing further speculation, as the issue is already addressed explicitly.--Sega381 16:14, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it's just me but lot of the recently added material dealing with Hawkwind/Time Lord pre U9 is more of speculation than fact. Relevant theory wasn't even suggested until the release of U9. Even if presented there as a fact, it shouldn't be pressed on the previous releases as a fact like already been there before U9 release.--Time Lord 15:06, 18 February 2011 (PST)

I'm not quiet sure I understand what part in particular you feel is speculative, but if you feel that Hawkwind's identity as the Time Lord should not be mentioned in relation to Ultima IV, I have to disagree. I hate Ultima IX as much as the next girl, but the document in the Abyss explicitly states that the Time Lord and Hawkwind are one and the same - and it goes on to underscore that he has been a key figure in the Avatar's past. As distasteful as this retcon might be, we should keep in mind that many Ultimas have made similar forced alterations to the stories of their predecessors.

Examples include:

• The sudden revelation in Ultima VI that the Stranger and the Avatar were the same party (which is odd, given that my stranger was a transsexual fuzzy)
• The seemingly irrational elevation Exodus' pet guard snake to the position of arch-deity of cosmic balance in Ultima VII: Part 2. (Given that early development of SI was based on voodoun cosmology and had no Ophidian virtue system, I think it's pretty safe to say that there was no original intention for the silver snake to be anything other than an obstacle en route to the foozle)
• The rather incongruous elevation of Shamino to a king of archaic Sosaria in the same game, despite the fact he had never bothered to mention his previous life as a noble and despite the fact that the Book of Lore explicitly portrayed him as a fairly unkingly woodcutter before Ultima I.
• The seemingly random insertion of various high fantasy races into the Ultima Underworld series even after they had been long absent from the main games (Mountain men and lizard folk were just hiding all that time... somewhere that my super-awesome magic carpet that circumnavigated the globe several times could not see... waiting for Warren Spector to coax them into view.)

While the sudden mashing together of these two seemingly unrelated characters made me even more desirous than usual to run my super-aryan-suddenly-bepenised-doesn't-know-what-a-paladin-is-Avatard into the nearest lava pit in Ultima IX, I think that acknowledging what's been stated explicitly in a game is ultimately the encyclopedic route to go, even if its clear that it wasn't the intent of Ultima IV to make this connection.--Blu3vib3 19:13, 18 February 2011 (PST)

This is where I react to something that is months old, but I just got to point that Shamino was portrayed as a King in Ultima I. So the SI bit wasn't so much a retcon as it was about bringing back a forgotten piece of Lore from the original game. --Sergorn