Hi, welcome to Editable Codex! Thanks for your edit to the History of Britannia page.
Hey Sega, it's great that you're adding information about Ultima IV to NPCs, but make sure you also add the whole article and the appropriate links. If Tessa exists in Ultima IV, make sure to add NPCs of Ultima IV to the edit, and edit the entire article so it's consistent with the added information. (Dungy 19:00, May 16, 2010 (UTC))
- Yes, sorry about that. I didn't notice the category, and I was kinda in a hurry, so I guessed it would be better to at least add part of the information, and to improve it later. I'll try to me more thorough.--Sega381 21:54, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
References and Timeline
I'd be happy to help you with the Timeline project. What do you mean about references not being well thought out? You mean you don't quite know what the proper format for material is? Usually I goto Wikipedia for inspiration in this regard, but I guess they usually reference publications, while ours go back to computer programs. It's probably not practical for us to follow their example precisely. A few things come to mind:
- Is the reference technology a new thing? For how long have you been at it?
- How much do you know about the technology? It seems to me that there's just a computer-read label, then some text that contains the reference material (or a reference to the reference material). Does it have any other features?
- Since many other wikis on Wikia are computer games, whatever we should be doing is whatever others should be doing. Do you know of any? If no one uses reference anymore than we have, we'll never find them :(
After your reply, we should probably take this to forums. AngusM 19:31, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
- About the references not thought out, I was refering mainly that I quickly decided a formatting style for the references, but I haven't spent much time thinking about or discussing if it is the proper one. I took some basic formatting from Wikipedia, and tried to merge it with what we have in our style guide regarding quotes. But the formatting I'm using should be discussed, and the definitive one should be in the style guide. For example, I'm not so sure I like putting quotes inside references with italics only, as I think they may not be very readable. But as the style guide indicated only italics for quotes, I didn't spend much time fixing that.
- About the ref tags, as far as I know they are a standard MediaWiki feature. It has always been in this wiki, but nobody had used it before. In general, I always try to add references to all the Wikis I contribute to. This wiki is the only one I contribute to that had no references at all, so I have started adding them some months ago. But I haven't added too many references yet, mainly to Ophidian related articles and the Timeline (which is where I started, as I hate exact years stated with no sources).
- About the tags themselves, in their most basic form, you just put a <ref> tag and it's closing pair, with some text between them, and add a <refences/> tag at the end of the article, usually in a "References" section, which automatically generates a list of the "ref" tags in the article. The ref tag can also have a name, like this <ref name="RoseName">blababla</ref>, so if you want to use the same reference again in the same article, you just put <ref name="RoseName" /> instead of copying the whole thing. That's basically it. It's up to the user to decide how to format the info inside the ref tag. Wikipedia has also a fancier template, "cite" or something I recall, which, as a template, is used inside a ref tag, and you add info to the defined attributes of the template, to help mantain consistency. I'm not sure if Wikia has that template, and I'm not sure if it is that useful to as, as it is better suited for publications and the like.
- Another wiki I sometimes contribute to is the Warcraft Wiki, which uses references. I'm not sure I like their style much, as they are in the process of chaning some of the book references they use, but we could borrow some ideas from that wiki.
- And yes, we should continue this, starting but how to use and format references, in a forum.--Sega381 01:14, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
Decompressing U6 conversations
I took a crack at that U6Decode thing you made for me, and I'm not sure I understand it. Are the CONVERSE.? files supposed to be lib32 or that other one? When I used that Lib32File class, it only decompresses about 1k, when the compressed file is in the 100s of k. When I try using that LZWObject, it fails and prints "Error: the nine bits after the size header are not 0x100, for info at 0: 0, 0". AngusM 06:18, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
- You know, these things always come to me about 60 seconds after I give up. Nevermind, I figured it out. AngusM 06:35, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
- Hehe, it usually happens that way. In any event, for the record, the CONVERSE.? are Lib32 files, which in turn have several LZWObjects inside (besides the offsets index at the start). Btw, I tried to explain all of this in this article: Ultima VI Internal Formats (not my code, but the format). In any event, I'm open to more questions if they pop-up. As I mentioned, that code isn't exactly "pretty", it's more functional than anything else.--Sega381 13:11, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
Well, we've got a LOT of NPC writing to do. :P Dungy 00:11, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
- Hehe, yep... as soon as I get my PC up and running (it's not working well right now), I'm going to use my newfound Lazarus insight in order to fill all those gaps :)--Sega381 00:45, October 12, 2010 (UTC)
- Just a friendly reminder, if you have a savegame in Minoc, could you snap a picture of Fenelon's portrait? The Hawk forgot to post that one online, so we need someone to get it. Dungy 11:02, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
- Sure, no problem. I still have to reinstall it, but I have a savegame I can use.--Sega381 12:31, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
- Just a friendly reminder, if you have a savegame in Minoc, could you snap a picture of Fenelon's portrait? The Hawk forgot to post that one online, so we need someone to get it. Dungy 11:02, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
I thought I'd spare you some tideous work and re-categorized (with the infobox) all britannian spells that only appear in one game (with exaction of the Ultima IV spells). Hope that helps.--Tribun 16:53, 26 February 2011 (PST)
- Sure, thanks!--Sega381 19:35, 27 February 2011 (PST)
- All the unique Serpent Isle spells now have their own articles. You can check on them if you want.--Tribun 12:22, 1 March 2011 (PST)
- Thanks again! They look great, I'll be checking them out. Good job!--Sega381 12:41, 1 March 2011 (PST)
Can you help me by creating several infoboxes for me?
I need the following in the boxes:
Ultima VIII spells.
- Necromancy: picture, words of power, reagents, mana cost
- Theurgy: picture, words of power, focus, mana cost
- Sorcery: picture, words of power, reagents, red candles, black candles, focus, mana cost
- Thaumaturgy: words of power, reagents, mana cost
I would be thankful if you could do that for me, as I still did get it entirely.--Tribun 15:47, 1 March 2011 (PST)
- Would it be ok if I created one single U8 Spells infobox, with optional attributes depending on the magic school?--Sega381 17:45, 1 March 2011 (PST)
- As long as you put in a description how to use it properly.--Tribun 17:52, 1 March 2011 (PST)
- Ok, I created one here: Template:Infobox/Pagan_Spell. It's pretty self explanatory, and you can use whichever optional parameters apply to each spell or school. If it needs any tweaking, just tell me. We could add something like a different background color depending on the school. It should be easy; if you want something like that, some graphical effect depending on the school, tell me what and I'll try to implement it.--Sega381 18:17, 1 March 2011 (PST)
- If it is not a bother, can the top bar where the spell name is be changed from the default color, depending on what is written in the "school" entry? The color of the bar would be light brown (earth) for Necromancy, light grey (air) for Theurgy, red (fire) for Sorcery and green for Thaumaturgy. Is that somehow possible?--Tribun 18:42, 1 March 2011 (PST)
- Sure, I'll try it and tell you when it's done.--Sega381 19:37, 1 March 2011 (PST)
- Ok, done. If you want more specific colors, get the hex value of that color and it can be easily changed in the template.--Sega381 07:47, 2 March 2011 (PST)
Looks good, I tested it. One last thing: I noticed the font size is a little bigger than in the other spell infoboxes. Can you adjust that?--Tribun 08:08, 2 March 2011 (PST)
EDIT: There also is a problem when I link the name of the school.--Tribun 08:13, 2 March 2011 (PST)
- Done and fixed. Don't add the link to the school, the link will be automatically added now.--Sega381 08:32, 2 March 2011 (PST)
- Very good, now I can catalogize all the spells.--Tribun 08:34, 2 March 2011 (PST)
- Should I make the template automatically add the "Pagan Spells" category?--Sega381 09:00, 2 March 2011 (PST)
No, no need.--Tribun 09:01, 2 March 2011 (PST)
- Looks great! We're doing a lot of progress in the spells section!--Sega381 15:32, 2 March 2011 (PST)
I like those spell template boxes you're creating. They're look great at the bottom of their respective pages, and more templates are more better. Dungy 14:22, 9 March 2011 (PST)
- I guess you mean the navigation bars for the spells? Thanks! I figured they were useful when someone wanted to see more info about other spells in the same circle, or just to navigate through spells for a given game. I'll be adding more soon. If you have any comments on how to improve them, feel free to give them :)--Sega381 19:18, 9 March 2011 (PST)
Spell Infoboxes for Ultima IX and the Underworlds
- An idea: maybe we should categorize the spells according to their school? It would be interesting to easily see in a category all the Sorcery spells, for example.--Sega381 15:33, 2 March 2011 (PST)
Nah, I think that would be overkill. There are not enough spells for each of the schools to justify an own category. I think the way it is organized right now is okay with this low number of spells..
I am planning ahead and need two more infoboxes:
- Ultima Underworld (both games): picture, words of power, circle, optional part for UW2-only spells (it just say UW2 only, no entry needed).
- Ultima IX: picture, words of power, reagents, circle.
Can this be done?--Tribun 15:40, 2 March 2011 (PST)
- Yes, but isn't the current Infobox for spells good enough for this? It has picture, words, reagents, circle. Reagents can be omitted if needed. At least for Ultima 9, I think it would be better to use the same infobox. For UW, I guess you don't want to repeat everything with the two subinfoboxes, as the same spells from UW1 are in UW2, and there are only some new ones, yes? I'll think on how to better do that. But I'd prefer to modify the current one to support that somehow, rather than create a new one, unless it is really needed. The less infoboxes to mantain, the better.--Sega381 17:41, 2 March 2011 (PST)
- Ok, but please tweak the infobox that when the game is Ultima IX, the Category is "Ascension Spells", that helps to keep it apart from the Britannian spells. Also, you're right, a seperate infobox for the Underworlds is needed, hopefully can can make one (that shouldn't be too difficult).
- As for Sosarian spells, since they don't have pictures, the content of their boxes would be something like: Class (arcane, Devine or both), Game, mana (only Ultima III), with the third being optional. What do you think?--Tribun 16:06, 3 March 2011 (PST)
- Yes, I guess I could do an Infobox like the one you mentioned for Sosarian spells, sounds ok. But I'm not convinced yet about the "Ascension Spells", though it is easily doable. Why not "Ultima IX Spells", as a subcategory of the "Britannian Spells"? Ok, they are significantly different, and we're putting them on separate articles. But they are Britannian spells, no? I know we all dislike U9 and that its very different spellwise in the gameplay and their definition. But lore-wise, it's just a new batch of Britannian Spells, no?--Sega381 17:00, 3 March 2011 (PST)
It's not that. I just want to avaoid to big of a clutter of Categories that start with "Ultima".--Tribun 17:59, 3 March 2011 (PST)
- Ok, but why would it be clutter? As a reader, I find it useful to go to a category that has all the spells from Ultima IX. And it's more clear to me if the category is called "Ultima IX Spells" than "Ascension Spells". It may be less elegant, but it is more functional, and consistent with the rest of the categories. It sounds odd too have "Ultima IV Spells", "Ultima V Spells", etc, and then "Ascension Spells".--Sega381 18:40, 3 March 2011 (PST)
OK, I give in.--Tribun 05:13, 4 March 2011 (PST)
- One small problem remains. I have no source for the lorequotes for the spells, as I only have the German manual and can't find a copy-and-paste friendly textfile of the mauals.--Tribun 05:59, 4 March 2011 (PST)
- You mean for the U9 spells? Hmm, I'll see if I can find a source. But in the worst case, you can start without the lorequotes, and add them later.--Sega381 07:18, 4 March 2011 (PST)
Sorry. I know you tried, but it's impossible to copy and past from a pdf. And writing down all this stuff would be sheer torture.--Tribun 08:05, 4 March 2011 (PST)
- I'm not sure what you mean. I just copied and pasted text from that PDF file. It is possible, it depends on the PDF file itself; if it is graphics based, it can't be done; if it is based on text and PDF rendering, it is possible. And this one is text+rendering based, not graphics-based.
- Try it. I'm using Acrobat Reader 8, in case you want to try it exactly like I did it. Open the PDF with Acrobat Reader, go to page 10 of the PDF (16 and 17 in the manual), and with the regular cursor you can select, then copy (Ctrl+C or Edit>Copy) the text, and the paste it anywhere. I'm pasting here the copied text from the Create Reagents spell (I Ctrl+C copied it, I didn't transcribe it):
"Even the disciplined mage can be caught unprepared. The Create Reagents spell allows the caster to focus his mana into the ground beneath his feet where a single reagent known to him may be extracted. A casting mage is limited to the reagents that he knows by sight, sound, and taste. The produced reagent varies with the terrain on which the mage performs the casting."
- Try it. It may not be working for you for some reason.--Sega381 09:21, 4 March 2011 (PST)
- Ah! I'd never before encoutered such a thing. Thanks, now it works.--Tribun 10:01, 4 March 2011 (PST)
- You're welcome! Happy LoreQuoting!--Sega381 10:04, 4 March 2011 (PST)
I'm done with the Ultima IX spells! Now the spells of Underworld and Sosaria (and perhaps Savage Empire) remain.--Tribun 12:22, 4 March 2011 (PST)
- Great! You're a spell-article machine. I'm done completing the infoboxes and other formatting for the Ultima 4 and Ultima 5 spells, and I'm starting on the Ultima 6 spells. I haven't created an infobox for the Sosarian spells though, I'll try to do it in the next days.
- For Underworld, I'm thinking I'm not yet convinced on doing a separate infobox. What would be the difference, again? Only that most (or all) spells from UW1 are unchanged in UW2? I'm not sure that's a reason for a new infobox, as the current one can still be used, for consistency. It may be interesting to tweak it a little, though I'm not sure it's needed, or how, yet.--Sega381 12:26, 4 March 2011 (PST)
I think we need one because Underworld doesn't use reagents and also the spells are exactly identical, so that only a marker is needed for spells that ONLY appear in UW2.--Tribun 12:29, 4 March 2011 (PST)
- Ok, I see your point. The reagent thing doesn't really need a new infobox, as the reagent parameter is optional; if one doesn't use it, it doesn't appear. So in the UW spells, we would just have to omit that parameter.
- The other part is trickier. Of course, one way to do it would be to repeat the information for both games, which would be consistent with what we've done with the other Britannian Spells, thus not needing a new infobox or any tweaking. But I agree it may not be the best solution, as, even though it is consistent, it seems to add unnecessary work.
- A simpler solution may be to tweak the current spell infobox a little further. I could add a new parameter, something like "game2" or similar, which, when used, would put a second game in the subtitle. For example: if we used the infobox right now on an Ultima IV game, the subtitle would say "Ultima IV". Same with Underworld 2, it would say "Ultima Underworld 2". If we added this optional "game2" parameter, which would, when used, always be filled with the value "Ultima Underworld", I could make the template put the subtitle "Ultima Underworld 2 & Ultima Underworld", therefore making it clear when the information applies only to UW2, or to UW2 and UW1. And it would be somewhat consisten with the current way it works, basically "merging" two subinfoboxes into one.--Sega381 12:37, 4 March 2011 (PST)
- Ok, that sounds good.--Tribun 12:44, 4 March 2011 (PST)
Looks good, however, I'll move the category, as it essentially is a completely seperate system of magic.--Tribun 13:22, 4 March 2011 (PST)
- Yes, I understand we could have the "Ultima Underworld Spells" and the "Ultima Underworld II Spells" inside a category diferent from "Britannian Spells", be it "Runic Spells" or something like that. Organize those categories as you see fit, and I'll check if it seems ok now. However, wherever they end up, I'd mantain the "Ultima Underworld Spells " and "Ultima Underworld II Spell" categories; again, for consistency.--Sega381 13:27, 4 March 2011 (PST)
- OK, I created the fitting categories, now all is set.--Tribun 13:40, 4 March 2011 (PST)
- Looks great!--Sega381 13:47, 4 March 2011 (PST)
- Btw., I also created a category for Sosarian Spells.--Tribun 14:03, 4 March 2011 (PST)
- Ok, good to know for when I'm working on the Sosarian infobox.--Sega381 14:23, 4 March 2011 (PST)
I just noticed... All spell infoboxes not using the "game2" thing create an empty area above the box which looks distracting. A code problem?--Tribun 15:10, 4 March 2011 (PST)
- Probably, good catch.. I think it has to do with the second category being added (or in that case, NOT being added). I'll check it out.--Sega381 16:30, 4 March 2011 (PST)
- Ok, fixed. Just a small leftover space.--Sega381 17:30, 4 March 2011 (PST)
I guess we would like to use a similar situation with the Sosarian infoboxes for spells for multiple games, right? Put the "Kill" spell from the first three games in the same infobox, separated in subsections, right? I guess that would be the best way to go. Besides the attributes you mentioned (game, class, and mana), we could also add an "incantation" one, optional, for the U1 spells.
In fact, just by adding the "class", "mana" and "incantation" parameters to the same Spell Infobox we have, we could use the exact same one, only enabling just the parameters we want. I can easily add this optional parameters, once again mantaining the same infobox and therefore easing its maintenance. However, I guess this would be close to its limit before getting too complicated.--Sega381 19:22, 4 March 2011 (PST)
- Ok, I've just done that, AND added a specific "Usage" section below to indicate more easily how to use the infobox for Sosarian Spells.--Sega381 04:51, 5 March 2011 (PST)
Hey, you started the poll on the spells and didn't vote! :p --polygoncount (Polygon Dragon -==(UDIC)==-) 22:25, 6 March 2011 (PST)
- Hehe, I know, I am still making up my mind :)--Sega381 04:12, 7 March 2011 (PST)
- Hey, I just thought about what if it is indeed decided to merge articles. I think it would be a bad idea to mish-mash everything into one big mess, as people who only want information on one or the other subject would be annoyed at having to read through that mess. What if instead, the whole Sosarian spell article is put seperately below the britannian spell, thus having both in one article but still clearly seperated. Having redirects to jump down there then would be easy. Also that would save us considerable headaches.--Tribun 05:09, 7 March 2011 (PST)
Looking at Ignite, can I make a suggestion? Maybe it should be made rule that in merged spell articles, the Britannian spell is always on top, with Sosarian and Ultima IX below it. It would help to keep things in a standard format for spells and frakly, the Britannian spells ARE clearly the dominant ones.--Tribun 17:22, 2 June 2011 (PDT)
- Hehe, I knew there would be reactions to that merger, so I merged only that article to wait for opinions. I was wondering about the order in which to put the merged information too, and I'm not sure what is the best way to go. I put the UIX first in this case, thinking of always putting the latest version of the spell first, which is consisten with having the Britannian version before the Sosarian one. We could go the way you suggest, too. I guess we should ask for people to vote on how to do it?--Sega381 18:45, 2 June 2011 (PDT)
Are you the go-to guy for templates? I see your finger prints all over them. I'm looking at what appears to be a broken template (see "Johnny Jones, from Ultima II'") but I can't find it, so I don't know how to fix it. Not that I'd know what to do when I got there anyway.
BTW, as I mentioned awhile back, it doesn't look right when "Ultima" appears on one line but its numeral is on the next. I don't blame editors for not wanting to slow themselves down with putting " " everywhere, but could this be done in templates, w/out breaking anything? The problem is much more likely to occur here anyway, since template-generated text tends to be on short lines. The Ultra-Mind 15:01, 17 October 2011 (PDT)
- Fixed. I'm really not sure why it displayed improperly before. All I did was add a space.Dungy 16:32, 17 October 2011 (PDT)
- Sorry I couldn't answer before, I'm a little overworked at the moment. I did create or improve some of the templates, so I could have helped, but Dungy beat me to it :). I hadn't worked on that template, and I'm not sure why the space was needed, but the important thing is that now it is working. And nbsp seem to work well in the template; I just added it to the UII template. So I guess we could probably add them to different templates easily enough.--Sega381 20:54, 17 October 2011 (PDT)
- Good stuff. I agree, this should be done on all the templates, and not just the infobox ones, but all that have "Ultima" followed by a numeral. The Ultra-Mind 10:36, 18 October 2011 (PDT)