Talk:Dream Realm

So, I'd personally like to get the name problems cleared up and mention of it made in the article. It's "Dream-World" or "Dream World" in Martian Dreams. "Dream Realm" in Serpent Isle if I remember correctly and I don't know what it is called in Underworld II of the top of my head. I wanted to make mention of it before I left the computer just in case people started going around fixing links tonight. I'll verify SI and UW2 when I get back if no one else has yet. -- Fenyx4 05:32, September 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah it's "Dream Realm" in SI. As for UW2, there's an issue as to whether there even was a Dream Realm/World in that game. That's a discussion I attempted to raise several months ago on Talk:Ethereal Void to no avail. For the sake of convenience I'll copy it over to here where it now belongs.


 * Of course, there's also the question of whether MD's Dream World and SI's Dream Realm are even supposed to be the same thing, but that's a whole other issue. --Terilem 06:02, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Dream Realm discussion copied from Talk:Ethereal Void
Sergorn 20:11, 5 December 2008 (UTC) The shrine changed little in its history, but in Ultima VII, it was the place, where the Time Lord was imprisoned and the Avatar had the task of freeing him from his prison. The Shrine of Spirituality seen in Ultima Underworld II can't be the real Shrine, since it is too different. More likely, it is a dream image of the real shrine, which is somewhere else. The Shrine in Ultima IX is seen as non-canon by many fans. I don't understand this statement. There is nothing even hinting that the Shrine of Spirituality in Ultima Underworld II isn't the real Shrine. The fact that it is the Guardian Place of Power in the Void would actually explain why the Time Lord was imprisoned there. Sure - it had a different look, but that's just a visual inconsistency, much like Castle Britannia between Ultima VII and Ultima Underworld. That's the same thing really in Ultima IX. It's the same shrine in every game - the fact that it looks differents is irrevelant in the end.

I think Sergorn raised a very valid point in his above post, as long ago as it was. Prior to the latest edits I made, there seemed to be some confusion and contradictions stemming from Ultima Underworld II about what is the Dream Realm and what is the Ethereal Void. To begin with, I'd like to propose the Dream Realm be given its own article entirely; despite the same starry backgrounds, I had never even considered it to be in the Ethereal Void per se, but rather a realm unto itself. I'd like to hear what others think about this, because I may well be in the minority.

As for what's in Underworld II, it doesn't seem to be a Dream Realm like what we saw in Martian Dreams and Serpent Isle. The Shrine of Spirituality, the psychedelic coloured pathways shown in the image; those are all the Ethereal Void, which is reflected by the dialogue. Dreaming was just a way to peer into it. The passages describing this are still relevant and could remain in this article somewhere after a little shuffling, but the whole question of what's a dream and what's real seems like an overcomplication to me.

Am I wrong? Some sort of consensus on this would be great. --Terilem 19:13, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

(Obviously Dream Realm has now been given its own article, but I'd still like to hear what others think about the rest.) --Terilem 06:12, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're not wrong, you're absolutely right. Also, I doubt that the Martian Dreams dream realm and the Gorlab Swamp dream world are the same, but I suppose they could be. --Warder Dragon 12:06, September 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * But along those lines, if there is no evidence on both worlds being the same, they should be in separate articles, with links mentioning each other. Or at the very least, they should be in separate sections in the same article. Otherwise, we would be trying to merge things that are not clearly the same in the Ultima games themselves, which is basically implicit speculation. --Sega381 21:32, September 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Pretty much. I've been thinking for awhile there should probably be separate Dream World (Martian Dreams) and Dream Realm (Serpent Isle) articles. --Terilem 05:16, September 4, 2010 (UTC)