Talk:War of Imbalance

Use of the word "religion"
This debate has already started on Talk:Shrine of Order. AngusM 22:16, May 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Besides, I often find that "religious intolerance" is a seductively oversimplified term. I wouldn't mind a second look at the material behind that wording. AngusM 22:20, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

How long did the War really last
I know I'm not going to reach a definitive answer on this, but anyway, I want to point something out and see if anyone agrees or has more information.

Reading at the different books on the War of Imbalance, and based on different conversations with NPCs, there seem to be an inconsistency on how long the war really lasted. There is ONE source, one only, that mentions how long the war lasted, which is the ingame book The War of Order and Chaos. It says "No one truly knows what happened to cause the war between the Forces of Chaos and Order about 300 years ago... The Order Forces won the war, and imprisoned the Chaos Forces. ... But everyone hath been paying for it since the war ended.". This is the only source that states an amount of years, and also the only source that hints that the amount of years was in the hundreds. In fact, it doesn't state that it lasted for 300 years, it just says it happened 300 years before the point of view of the writer, Ssanettess.

I get the impression from other books that the forces of Order did not stay in the island for much after the end of the war, and there are some sources suggesting this, such as the book War of Imabalance, where Suranniss says "The War of Imbalance started simply enough, but by the time 'twas over most of our people were slaughtered, our cities devastated, and the land laid waste. I have been lucky, for I have survived to write about the tragedy. I cannot say the same thing about many of my friends -- they are all dead. Even as I write, the Adepts are scurrying about, preparing for the great ceremony that shall energize the Wall of Lights. Soon, I and my surviving comrades shall leave our shattered land, never to return." This implies that Suranniss, who participated in the war, was alive when the Order forces left the Island. Therefore, less than a hundred years must have passed between the end of the war and the Order forces leaving, probably quite less. So according to our first source, the war should have lasted at least 200 years, probably more, 250, or even 300 years.

On the other hand, The Silver Seed seems to ocurr in a moment when the Order forces were about to win the war. They were way into Chaos terrotiry, so much that the fortress where the action takes place, which had been in the vanguard years before, was now deep in conquered territory. Several NPCs use the "hand" unit of time, which I haven't heard of anywhere else. But sisnce Tsandar says "He was murdered when I was but a boy, over three hands of years ago now", and he is not an old man, that means that a "hand" of years must be at most 10 years, and no less than 3 years. As a hand has five fingers, it probably refers to the number five. That means that at the time of The Silver Seed, the war has been going on for 15 years (or 30 at most). And it really seemed as it was about to end. Tsandar also says "For more than two hands of years, Order has fought only a holding battle against the forces of Chaos. Nothing we did could give us an advantage over their numbers. But now that we have the automatons, nothing can stand in our way!", reinforcing the fact that the war went on for 10 years (or 20 at most) before they created the Automatons.

So it is weird to think that the war went on for 170 or even 270 years after The Silver Seed, where it seemed like the war was about to end. Specially as no other sources state that after the Automatons the Chaos forces were able to recuperate and fight back for hundreds of years. And there are other statements that seem to support the fact that the war did not last for hundreds of years. Ssanettess says "Going back to the days before the war, living in peace with the Chaos Forces would be a dream come true for me...", which, though not conclusive at all, seem to imply that he was alive before the war. Though not conclusive either, Suranniss says "We were content and happy; we had no reason to suspect that our happiness would not continue indefinitely. We were so naive...I am afraid of the future, but I know I cannot live in the past. I can only remember the past. I shall strive to remember the times of joy and try to forget the ashen, bitter memories of the war.", which also implies he was alive before the war started.

So, if we ignore the 300 years figure, EVERY other source seems to point at the war lasting for quite less, maybe 30 years or so (which still is a long time for a war). And in fact, the 300 year figure may be a mistake, having a 0 which shouldn't be there, and maybe it was supposed to be 30 years, not 300.

I know I won't get a definitive answer, but I'd like to know the opinions of others, at least to see how to rephrase the parts about the 300 years.--Sega381 14:22, 2 November 2010 (PDT)


 * We now have some more material to potentially shed light on this: the Origin timeline posted on Talk:Timeline of the Ultima Universe shows the war running its course within a 50-year window. It's also purported to have broken out 300 years prior to SI; this might suggest the number given in The War of Order and Chaos was indeed a mix-up on the part of whichever team member wrote it. --Terilem (talk) 13:06, 11 July 2015 (UTC)