User talk:Arthgon

Welcome to Ultima Codex! We hope you will contribute much and well. You will probably want to read the help pages. Again, welcome and have fun! -- Fenyx4 14:55, 27 November 2012 (PST)

C64 Ultima VI
I noticed that you are adding details from the C64 version of Ultima VI that were different from the original. Does it mean that you've played (and maybe even won) the game? I never managed to do so, as it was far to tideous with how slow it is and all the disk-swapping.--Tribun 09:56, 30 November 2012 (PST)


 * Yes, indeed. I've played and won the game with a lot of patience and perseverance. Did you know that in the Commodore 64's version the switches in Dungeon Covetous/Wrong are invisible? --Arthgon 10:10, 30 November 2012 (PST)


 * Won on a real C64 or on an emulator? (I ask because it's next to impossible to find C64 endgame pics)--Tribun 10:38, 30 November 2012 (PST)


 * I've won it on a real C64. Sorry. But if it's okay, I can find the emulation version and get the C64 endgame pics for you. --Arthgon 10:42, 30 November 2012 (PST)

Oh yes, please.--Tribun 10:52, 30 November 2012 (PST)

I read your troubles with the Xiao bug. Since she only is important for spells, you can just use the cheat system to get the spells you'd miss otherwise.--Tribun 04:42, 5 December 2012 (PST)


 * I am going to do that. Do you know what's causing this bug? It's really weird. Oh. One of the other things that I'm going do is this; Getting my C64 computer (yes. Original with one disk drive. Got it for my birthday in the 80's) from the attic and play (and making pictures of the progress and such, of course) the game with authentic and nostalgic feelings. --Arthgon 05:26, 5 December 2012 (PST)


 * Nice idea, but for screenshots I'd stick with an emulator.--Tribun 06:12, 5 December 2012 (PST)

I really find it interesting how different the game looked on a C64, so keep on! The bug with the gargoyles is funny, but some other thing: is it normal, that some persons are called "Aaaaaaaaaaaa"? Seems to be another bug.--Tribun 11:44, 29 December 2012 (PST)


 * I never knew Xiao is this buggy on the C64. Something tells me it could be that either emulation or the version used for the d64 file has errors. Any way to test it out on a real C64?--Tribun (talk) 17:57, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I already tried two different versions of WinVICE and Ultima VI. Now I am going to try if it has the same errors on CCS64 and another version of Ultima VI. Real C64? I have to look for it on the attic by my parents. Will try to find this. --Arthgon (talk) 18:09, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Update: Tried CCS64 with both of the versions of Ultima VI (It does run faster) that I have and it still buggy. Will try to use another version of Ultima VI. If that is not working, I will just move on with the version that I always been using and play the game further. Until now ONLY Xiao was very buggy. --Arthgon (talk) 15:03, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Just moved on with the version that I always been using. That is because Xiao stay buggy. I have NO idea why. --Arthgon (talk) 12:36, 9 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I did some testing and it looks like all the bugs you've been having come from using cracked .d64s. If you track down the .nib images and run them through nibconv to make .g64s you can run them in SPS's build of VICE and it seems to not have the aaaaaaa or the Xiao bug. Good luck! -184.19.92.158 23:58, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Nice find. However, to be honest, you could say that I am "a bit" too old-fashioned for these sorts of things for the computer and I do not have the floppies/C64 with me. They're still on my parents attic and I did not had the time to get them. Probably, this friday when I go and stay there for the weekend. Oh well. Or do you need to buy that Disk Drive and cables at that kryoflux store? It would have been more cooler (not to mention more easier) if you could connect the C64 with the PC without any modifications. If you know what I mean. In the meantime, I will just go on with the show. --Arthgon (talk) 12:46, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Oops... Looks like I was wrong, apparently it doesn't have disk based copy protection, I shouldn't have assumed. If you want to make your own images you should be able to do it without special hardware, you'd only really need that if they were copy protected. -184.11.27.25 07:24, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay. I will just move on and play the game with the version that I am using. Everything looks fine *knocks on unpolished wood* --Arthgon (talk) 10:01, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

After you mentioned swamps, doesn't Utomo in Yew sell swamp boots? Is there a difference on the C64?--Tribun (talk) 12:17, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Screenshots
I took the freedom to improve your two screenshots and can give you some tips to imrove the quality:


 * The screenshots were far too bright and the color timing was off. You should re-calibrate the contrast and color-timing of your emulator.
 * The first screenshot had bad dithering. Please save the pictures as PNG files (or JPG with good quality).

Since C64-shots are rae, I hope we see more. The two you have now will be put onto the bugs page.--Tribun 00:10, 7 December 2012 (PST)


 * Thanks. I will try to improve the pictures. If it still is not okay, sorry. I will fix it. --Arthgon 10:40, 7 December 2012 (PST)


 * It's getting closer. The brightness is still a bit too high (the blacks are greys) and the contrast and color saturation too low. But you are on a good way, use other C64 screenshots on this wiki as a guide.--Tribun 12:06, 7 December 2012 (PST)


 * Better? --Arthgon 12:28, 7 December 2012 (PST)


 * VERY close now! Just the contrast a little bit lower (so that they greys don't get slallowed by the whites) and the color a bit stronger, then yu are there!--Tribun 12:36, 7 December 2012 (PST)


 * And now? --Arthgon 12:49, 7 December 2012 (PST)


 * Color look OK now. Uhm.. contrast is good, you just need to reduce brightness now, so that blacks are blacks.--Tribun 12:52, 7 December 2012 (PST)

Just to be sure, you guys are confident of your colour perception and equipment, right? I was once given an Ishihara test which I failed miserably even though I aced the lantern test. With that an my 10+-year-old KDS CRT (at least it faces away from the window), I'd want a second opinion (and wouldn't look for the colour blind to lead the colour blind) The Ultra-Mind 14:23, 7 December 2012 (PST)


 * I for one are not that sure with my colour perception. Oh well. Have you noticed that sometimes the picture don't change as you upload another version of it? I did that with a version of the picture with Lady Nan, Ariana and Kenneth but still it was the same as the one before that. That's why all those pictures of the same thing. Sorry. Now I will go on, until it is right. --Arthgon 16:33, 7 December 2012 (PST)

Sometimes you need to refrash the page, before the change is shown correctly. I tweaked your latest picture and uploadedd it as a guide for you. Basically, I just lowered brightness and increased color saturation a bit. You can use that one to adjust your emulator. While at it, try if you can tweak (after the first two things) the color timing a bit so that the back wall looks a bit more grey, since the whites and greys right now melt together (I think using a PAL palette on the emulator improves the output).

Don't give up, screenshots are constantly improving, and it really is a bitch to get the correct settings for a C64.--Tribun 00:42, 8 December 2012 (PST)


 * Addendum: I re-created the scene with my own emulator. Here what it should look like (I didn't alter the picture at all).
 * [[Image: Exampleu6.png|200px]]
 * What emulator are you using? If you are using VICE (the most common one), I can give you the values needed to get this picture.--Tribun 01:06, 8 December 2012 (PST)
 * Thank you for helping me out. I'm using a ccs64. --Arthgon 01:29, 8 December 2012 (PST)
 * I'd suggest using VICE, since it is far more faithful with picture and sound. I stopped using CCS64 because of its shortcomings.--Tribun 01:47, 8 December 2012 (PST)
 * I never have had some problems with the CCS64, (Perhaps it is because I'm used to swap floppies on my C64/128 and I experienced the awful and painstaking waiting with the good ol' tapes.) but the pictures and sounds are a bit off indeed. (Not to mention the way to get the right color. Well. My original C64/C128 had a black and white screen so...I had to connect it to the television to get colors. Besides, it was the only way to survive the piranhas in "Aztec Challenge".) I will go and try VICE. --Arthgon 02:26, 8 December 2012 (PST)

Good, once you got it to work (it's really simple) I can tell you how I adjusted my video options for optimal picture.--Tribun 02:33, 8 December 2012 (PST)
 * Okay. It's installed and it's ready to roll. --Arthgon 06:15, 9 December 2012 (PST)

You mean? --Arthgon 06:46, 9 December 2012 (PST)


 * No, I mean where you talk to Kenneth (the topmost screenshot on this page), since it is good to compare colors. I also took the freedom to shrink the screenshots on this page.


 * This?Ladynan.PNG‎

Perfect. Your picture already is well adnjusted. That's what you should use for future screenshots.--Tribun 07:09, 9 December 2012 (PST)

After you left Wikia
Just something interesting: I did leave you a message at the old Wikia place at the start of the month where to find us (didn't know then you were already coming over) and as a result, they banned me. It just shows how desperate they must be to try and cover up that their place is dead. Funny is, they even asked you to become an admin, showing how deserted the place is.

Btw., some other poor sod has recently fallen prey to them. Maybe you can warn him and tell where we are now?--Tribun 06:32, 16 December 2012 (PST)


 * Strange. They must have deleted the message, because its nowhere to be found. Admin? Wow. Even though I feel flattered, it makes me feel like Zog. I shall warn QurupecoHunter04. --Arthgon 07:20, 16 December 2012 (PST)


 * Yeah, they did erase the massage. Cowards can't even face the competetion.--Tribun 07:30, 16 December 2012 (PST)


 * How's this? "You may have noticed that there's another wiki called http://wiki.ultimacodex.com/wiki/Main_Page. (Yes. I am perfectly aware that this is the opposing concurrent.) Moreover, it's quite different as this one. This place is full of life and user-friendly. You'll notice that every one of the older contributors is there. Come and see." --Arthgon 07:55, 16 December 2012 (PST)

Better add as well that right now he's basically at a deserted place, an old version.--Tribun 08:05, 16 December 2012 (PST)


 * Something like this? "You're now in a place which you could compare with Ancient Sosaria after Zog used the Armageddon spell. Alone in an empty world." Subtlety is the best way. --Arthgon 08:14, 16 December 2012 (PST)
 * Looks good.--Tribun 08:36, 16 December 2012 (PST)
 * I have send the message.--Arthgon 08:45, 16 December 2012 (PST)
 * I've changed it into something like: "You may have noticed that there's Ultima Codex...." This is to prevent that it will get notified as spam and such. Okay? --Arthgon 15:11, 16 December 2012 (PST)

It seems that semanticdrifter has deleted the message (notifying it as a solicitation) and wrote this: "In the meantime, please refrain from directing users to the forked community. There will be zero chance of rebuilding this wiki if everyone who contributes is directed to a competing source. It is against our fork policy to direct users to competing wikis. Thanks. " Oh. He is also REALLY wants me to be an admin. --Arthgon 01:45, 17 December 2012 (PST)

Oh. I forgot to tell the funniest bit. Now it only says: Welcome to this Wiki. You're now in a place which you could compare with Ancient Sosaria after Zog used the Armageddon spell. Alone in an empty world. --Arthgon 13:00, 17 December 2012 (PST)


 * Ha! Good one!--Tribun 13:26, 17 December 2012 (PST)
 * Oh yeah, they edited what you wrote him. However, I find this one what they told you much better: "Fair enough. Please let me know if you change your mind. In the meantime, please refrain from directing users to the forked community. There will be zero chance of rebuilding this wiki if everyone who contributes is directed to a competing source. It is against our fork policy to direct users to competing wikis. Thanks,".
 * That was a good one from them. They are still too stubborn to admit they they'd lost since the move.--Tribun 13:30, 17 December 2012 (PST)


 * It's sad to see how worried they are about having a wiki there just for the traffic, rather than being worried about the Wiki's content... from the community point of view, of course it's better to focus all efforts in one wiki, especially since the community is ok with that (and since it is pretty small in comparison to other wikis). But they insist on trying to lure people into rebuilding that other wiki, which would of course waste the efforts of people that could be helping here instead of doing duplicate or separate work... They clearly show how they care only about the traffic, and nothing about the actual communities.--Sega381 16:01, 17 December 2012 (PST)


 * It should be remembered Wikia is a for-profit business, so of course what they ultimately care about is traffic. The Editable Codex may have lost its active community, but I'm willing to bet it still gets loads more visitors than we do if Google search results are anything to go by. Wikia has reasons to keep it alive and I don't expect them to stop trying any time soon. --Terilem 18:17, 17 December 2012 (PST)

Hey, you're onto a good idea, making the sedition subtle, in Ultima-speak and such. Even if they see through it, at least you made 'em work for it.

Next you might try something like "now, whatever you do don't go over to the forked Codex of Ultima Wisdom! It's a horrible place full of nearly all the editors that made the content here, and not a bit of advertising. Seriously! None whatsoever! Imagine!

But my preferred method would be to upload something like this to users' talk pages: Then maybe add some garlands and stuff... they'll never know The Ultra-Mind 19:54, 17 December 2012 (PST)


 * Oh my... that image is brilliant. --Terilem 22:00, 17 December 2012 (PST)
 * I totally agree with that. It's awesome and they'd probably don't get it. You can always do it in the  Ophidian Alphabet, because they call us "forked"--Arthgon 00:25, 18 December 2012 (PST)
 * Nah, Runic is enough. I'd be next to impossible to read Ophidian script.--Tribun 01:45, 18 December 2012 (PST)

Broken Code
Somehow during your writing of the RoV walkthrough, you broke masses of code. No idea how that happened, but It'd be better to fix this.--Tribun 06:53, 24 December 2012 (PST)
 * Yeah. I know. I will try to fix it.--Arthgon 01:32, 25 December 2012 (PST)

Hooray. I fixed it completely. Thank God that I had a back-up of a part of it. Phew. The culprit? To avoid the same problem, just not press Save Page when someone else is editing the page. This will break the mass of code and makes everything really look bad. Strangely enough, no one but me was editing the page only this time. --Arthgon 01:32, 25 December 2012 (PST)

Your Picture Uploads
First, I did put together the Ultima VII paper map and replaced the old version with it. Please tell if I did a good job with puzzling it back together.
 * The map looks awesome! --Arthgon 15:33, 3 January 2013 (PST)

Now, I noticed that the scans you uploaded for ads and covers were horrifically bloated. No offense, but several megabytes is simply too much for a simple cover scan (I draw the line at a mamimum of 2 MB for a complete cloth map) So, for the future, here some tips to make life easier for yourself:
 * Do not save the pictures as PNG, that's only meant for small pictures or with few colors, not scans. Save as JPG and select a good compression rate.
 * Shrink the scans down. The original scan size is simply too big to be practical.

I do appreciate your work, but authors here have little understanding for creating pictures of several megabytes. I hope to see more of your work and that my tips help you out.--Tribun 15:02, 3 January 2013 (PST)


 * Okay. I shall do that. Thank you for changing them (they look much better now) and giving me advice about this sort of things. I really appreciate that. --Arthgon 15:33, 3 January 2013 (PST)


 * Right, none of us here have any idea about image processing... :/ --Terilem 17:35, 3 January 2013 (PST)


 * I <3 you so much right now. -- Fenyx4 18:36, 3 January 2013 (PST)

The big 1,000
Almost 1,000 edits to the wiki. That's something to be proud of! Dungy 16:23, 25 January 2013 (PST)
 * Thank you. --Arthgon 02:35, 26 January 2013 (PST)

UW2 Weapon Icons
If you upload Underworld II wepaon icons, please right away create the correct category to put them into.--Tribun 12:45, 31 January 2013 (PST)
 * Yes. You are definely right. I will make them. --Arthgon 12:47, 31 January 2013 (PST)
 * Great work on those icons, between You, Dungy, and myself; the images on the site will be really cleaned up and organized. - Iceblade 09:17, 7 March 2013 (PST)

Articles for deletion
To make my life a bit easier, if you want an image deleted, change its category to "Articles for Deletion". I'll get around to it eventually. Dungy 15:03, 3 February 2013 (PST)
 * Okay. Sorry. I will do that. --Arthgon 05:34, 4 February 2013 (PST)
 * Thanks, that prevents me from deleting the wrong page. You don't have to blank discussion pages, when I delete the file, the discussion page is deleted too. Dungy 06:15, 4 February 2013 (PST)
 * Your welcome. The discussion file still functioned to my surprise. One of items was still linked to it. I hope that I did the right thing. --Arthgon 06:21, 4 February 2013 (PST)

Thank you
Good grief, thank you for taking on the task of cleaning up the Serpent Isle walkthrough. I'm shocked and embarrassed that kind of language was on this wiki for so long before your removals/rewrites. Keep up the good work. --Terilem 05:34, 11 February 2013 (PST)
 * Ditto. We've got lots of pages that need this. Dungy 06:09, 11 February 2013 (PST)
 * Your welcome. At this moment, I have clean up the whole walkthrough, fixed the typos and the sentences. Shall I now remove the banner? Now, I am going to fix those other pages that need this as well. Ninja-edit: Removed the banner.--Arthgon 12:46, 11 February 2013 (PST)

Renaming images
Hey Arthgon, just letting you know if you want to rename an image, you can click the "Move" tab at the top of the file's page. It'd be much less convoluted than uploading new versions and leaving all the old ones marked for deletion. --Terilem (talk) 18:11, 12 April 2013 (PDT)
 * I know. Because I was just not that happy with the results, I changed their sizes and names. The newer ones have a different size and actually looking now much better than the original ones. --Arthgon (talk) 02:50, 13 April 2013 (PDT)
 * What I mean is you don't have to upload a completely new file under a different name and mark the old one for deletion. You can overwrite the same file with the new version, and if you want to rename it, click the "Move" tab at the top of the page. --Terilem (talk) 06:35, 13 April 2013 (PDT)
 * I know I really do not have to do this. However, I just want to make it look perfect and prevent that there are too much different versions under one file. If you know what I mean. I really hope you do not mind my perfectionism. --Arthgon (talk) 06:40, 13 April 2013 (PDT)

Empty Image Space
There is something that bugs me with the armour images. I understand the space with the weapons, since some are quite big and you want a uniform picture height. However, none of the armour is that tall, making all the extra space look very useless and the table needlessly bloated.--Tribun (talk) 20:54, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes. You are right. Perhaps 80x50 or something for the armour and shields? However, I also want the pictures look great and not bloated or something. Better? --Arthgon (talk) 22:09, 11 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Looks much better now!--Tribun (talk) 08:12, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Everything got fixed, so you can now update the old png files instead of uploading entirely new jpg ones.--Tribun (talk) 14:04, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * It is good to see that everything is fixed. How are the armour looking so far? I uploaded some new ones to prevent that it become too many versions. (Also better named) --Arthgon (talk) 20:04, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * You can look at my recent changes to Weapon Values to see how you can format the table to do the work for you instead adding white space to the image itself (making it easier to work with the image elsewhere if necessary). This advice is coming pretty late but if you have more tables and images to work with in the future this might help. -- Fenyx4 21:26, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. --Arthgon (talk) 09:06, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Broken Files
As you noticed there were a few files that were uploaded during the moratorium that are busted (see here). Sorry my bad I should have just disabled uploading during the durtion. Do you still have local copies of them? If so could you send them to me editablecodex-at-gmail.com? Thanks. -- Fenyx4 12:54, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Nevermind. I managed to fix it. -- Fenyx4 13:35, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, it was a bit of my fault. I should have waited for it being ready. Someone said (Yes, short-time memory is the first to go) that it would not be happend the next day. So...I thought that it would be okay to do this. Sorry. --Arthgon (talk) 18:57, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Advantages of new vs. old files?
I was wondering why you were systematically replacing the old U6 files? It seems like the old versions have couple advantages. 1) they have a transparency layer and 2) they don't have the extra whitespace around them that could make them hard to use elsewhere. -- Fenyx4 12:26, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh. I just wanted to use better looking ones. Sorry.--Arthgon (talk) 12:28, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I can understand better looking. :) But I'm wondering what you find better looking? Both of the below look the same to me. -- Fenyx4 12:40, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I know. It is just the name, size and all. I hope it is okay. Just want things to be perfect--Arthgon (talk) 12:44, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I can understand wanting consistent names. Although it has been explained before you can use move to change the name instead of uploading an entirely new version. (except in the cases of changing the filetype. Then, yes, you do need to upload a new version).
 * Can you explain what is better about the size?
 * Why do you need to remove the image transparency? -- Fenyx4 13:01, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * As I said before, when I change the name, (instead of uploading) there is still a redirect page to the new title. It seems that you just cannot prevent it. And that does not look good. Besides, only a couple of weapons, the Storm Cloak and some armor are like this. ALL the others are new.
 * Uh? Image transparency? So I have to copy the items, equipment, et al out of my Ultima VI game and then using Image transparency? Oh. --Arthgon (talk) 13:25, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest moving it and then requesting the redirect be deleted. Then a duplicate file isn't on the server, it gives the mods clearer information on what is going on with the delete (makes going through the to be deleted category faster), and the file history isn't lost.
 * Image transparency has two advantages that come to mind. If the item has bits of white on the edge that information isn't lost (with a white background you can't tell what is white item and white background). And if sometime in the future the background of the pages change it won't make all these images have a white border around all of them. So if you can easily add in image transparency that would be great. (I won't make you jump through hoops to add image transparency if it is difficult).
 * But my real point here is that if we already have images with transparency then replacing them with nearly identical images WITHOUT transparency is a step backwards.
 * And what is better about the size? -- Fenyx4 14:06, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay. I will asked it for someone to delete the redirect. The most of the items so far are have not got that much white on their edges et al and are identical in the game. I have triple-check to make sure. However, now I know what you mean. I will try to use transparency, IF there is white on the edges. However, I am not that good at this.--Arthgon (talk) 14:23, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * No worries. You are doing great. I just saw stuff that concerned me so thought I'd discuss it with you. -- Fenyx4 14:58, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

A little idea
Seeing how the locations of the weapons otherwise is rather empty on the right side, I did a little experiment at Magic Sword. What do you think of it?--Tribun (talk) 15:46, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I like the idea. While I already was thinking to place those pictures of the weapons, you actually did it. Thanks you. It looks great. --Arthgon (talk) 17:17, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Btw., take a look at this page. It has tons of weapon locations for Serpent Isle.--Tribun (talk) 22:07, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay. I will look at that site. At the moment I am looking inside of the game for more locations. --Arthgon (talk) 00:10, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Guys, I think these dozens of locations for every weapon are starting to take articles into walkthrough territory. I'm beginning to wonder if maybe weapon locations should be given their own article, as was done with Weapon Values. --Terilem (talk) 22:27, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Interesting idea. However, would not it become something like this? Locations of the Fire Sword, Locations of Glass Swords, Locations of the Swords of Defense, et al. --Arthgon (talk) 00:10, 24 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I'd probably be more inclined to just have every item compiled into one big Locations article and link to each relevant section from their main article (the same way we handle NPC transcripts). On the other hand, I do like the idea of displaying each item's icon from every game it appeared in. --Terilem (talk) 06:05, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Phew. That is much better. I wanted to come with the same idea, however I accidently deleted that part of my last post. Oops. Luckily, you did. Thanks. Yes. One main article would do with the eye on details and could be an easy overview for those who wants to find the Whereabouts of the Mundane, Enchanted and Unique Objects of the Ultima Universe. What do you think of naming it like this?

On the other hand, the locations are at the appropriate objects, so that people do not have to go and search a whole article to find the location of the desired weapon or rare item in the appropriate game.--Arthgon (talk) 09:16, 24 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I do have an idea how to make it look a little tidier. Can't these location lists be transformed into collapsable tables, which can be opened an demand? The article structure won't change but it certainly will make the articles less bloated and even the picture of the item can be off-loaded into the table (should look good with a fixed width).--Tribun (talk) 00:57, 29 August 2013 (UTC)


 * That sounds like a good compromise to me. --Terilem (talk) 01:03, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Arthgon tried an example at Fire Wand, but I think we need a real table, not a navigation table. These can be collapsed as well, right?--Tribun (talk) 18:53, 29 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Is there any way to make the whole section collapsable without using tables? I'm not an expert on wiki coding by any means, but I'd prefer to avoid yet more tables if we can. --Terilem (talk) 03:26, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not a big fan of collapsible tables/sections being used like this. With the navs it is used to highlight the section you are in. With the Infoboxes it is to declutter and organize something we want in a prominent position. (And then there is always the chance someone is using a browser that doesn't support collapsible tables and using them here wouldn't fail very gracefully.)
 * I've changed Fire Wand as an example of my solution (solutions). We don't need the Locations in a prominent position so this shows it just moved further down in the article so the Lore and Trivia don't get hidden by the wall of text. But for really long ones I think it should get moved to it's own subpage. Not a compiled page like Weapon Values because that would get way, way, way to long. But something like this. We can still show a few easiest, most useful or earliest locations on the article itself if we like
 * (Here is Arthgon's version for reference.) -- Fenyx4 17:44, 31 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Ok, the new way with a sub-page looks best, since that seriously de-clutters the weapon and armour pages and means we can go all out without fearing to bloat an article. We should have the categories weapons locations and armour locations. Maybe equipment locations, too.--Tribun (talk) 18:00, 31 August 2013 (UTC)EDIT: I alter the main Fire Wand page to make it more compact. How does it look?--Tribun (talk) 18:04, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I do like it. We also should make an item locations. --Arthgon (talk) 18:10, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

I tweaked Triple Crossbow to look like the Fire Wand page (Effectiveness and Locations were not turned into sub-points). Btw., I noticed you updated the Ultima 7 icons to eliminate the huge empty spaces. That's a very good idea, these spaces look ugly and I remember you can program tables to even spacing.--Tribun (talk) 01:16, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I just have finished the updating the weapons of Ultima VII and Ultima VII Part Two! Looking much much much better now, right? --Arthgon (talk) 16:17, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Yup, looks much better now. I think you already did that for armour, which leaves potions and other items. (maybe monsters as well).--Tribun (talk) 16:23, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Btw., I found the size of your recent Ultima I icons (and some others) strange. They are 48x48, while 32x32 would be the correct Scalerx2 size. Are you using Scalerx3?--Tribun (talk) 23:30, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Ooops. I knew that I forgot something. Changing it to the size of 32x32. I will change it to that size. It is okay if you want to do this as well. At the moment I am also changing the sizes of the monsters of Ultima VII, putting in the missing Runes of Ultima VI, IX. --Arthgon (talk) 09:07, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Created the apropiate Category for the locations of weapons, armour and equipment and moved the two test articles (dire wand and triple crossbow) there. Guess the big migration will soon start.--Tribun (talk) 23:18, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Redirects
Just wanted to point out that the Black Gate redirects to an anchor (a certain point on the page) so if you do replace something like that the you'd want to do it like this Black Gate. (Although I don't see need to replace it myself...) -- Fenyx4 03:02, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I just read the page on Wikipedia about redirects and found it useful. I discovered that I should revisit my policy about deleting image redirects since it breaks historical versions of pages (like here). (I may need to go back and undelete some stuff I renamed. Blarg.) You might find this section pertinent. Not going around and changing all those links would probably save you time. :) -- Fenyx4 14:46, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Agree. The re-directs of links can be okay. However, some of the links does not redirect to the right article or just look horrible. Things that were done like: dungeon]]s, shrine]]s and other horrid variants that I cannot remember at this moment. Sloppy, in my humble opinion. Yes, I am perfectonist, indeed.
 * Undeleting image redirections? Perhaps placing them in an article Historically Versions Images to prevent clogging up the latest better Images. Sorry, about those awful redirects of the Barlon. I accidently misspelled it. (Needed coffee) Ooops. We all can life without THOSE redirects. --Arthgon (talk) 16:22, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, dungeons used to bug me too but behind the scenes MediaWiki is essentially turning it into dungeons so it looks the same on the page and since can be a clear, useful shortcut I got over it.
 * Most of us here are perfectionists. Sadly we don't always agree on what is perfect. :)
 * Agreed, Barlon is a great example of when the redirect should be deleted. Shows up in maybe one old version and is immediately removed in the next. The one I pointed out was in dozens of edits though and the when and why of it being changed wasn't as clear. So I probably shoulda kept that image's redirect around. -- Fenyx4 17:59, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

List Style
Heya, just wanted to give you a heads up the the list formatting style we use across the wiki is no periods on lists that are sentence fragments. Also the description following the NPC name and colon starts doesn't start off capitalized (unless it is a proper noun). If you'd like to see this formatting changed you should start a discussion on the forums or in Ultima_Codex_talk:Style_guide. Thanks. -- Fenyx4 21:20, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Small note
Just wanted to give you the headsup that "much better!" isn't really an edit summary, it says nothing about the kind of edits you made. Since you make a lot of edits, it makes it really difficult to see just exactly what you've done if you post the same edit summary all the time. --Warder Dragon (talk) 10:01, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that. I have no idea why I keep on doing this ever. Sorry. I will post what I have done instead. --Arthgon (talk) 10:08, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I may have sounded harsher than I intended, so I apologize. I just meant to be helpful. :) --Warder Dragon (talk) 18:10, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Do not worry about it, I am not of porcelain. You've been right about the "Much Better" thing. It does not make any sense indeed. --Arthgon (talk) 18:24, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

FM-Towns Pics
Why are you uploading these U1 FM-Towns monster pics? We already have these.--Tribun (talk) 23:59, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The original are in my opinion, a bit too big and making the Monster Data harder to read. You'll have to go to the right to see the other half of the Schemetics of the monsters (I hope that I am clear enough, because I'm not sure how to say this. Sorry if it is not clear) --Arthgon (talk) 00:05, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * As I sadi in the picture talk, why not just scale them down them with the options the wiki gives you? That'd be far easier than all these new uploads.--Tribun (talk) 00:08, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * OKay. I will change the sizes with the other ones. Sorry about it. Just wanting it to be perfect--Arthgon (talk) 00:10, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * If I may ask also, please update image files instead of uploading new ones. We generally prefer to keep edit histories intact.--Terilem (talk) 00:19, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Checked out the page now. Pictures re-sized, the table now looks better now. Good work.--Tribun (talk) 00:57, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Shop Pages
Your creation of Weapon Shop finally animated me to overhaul all shop pages (things like Grocery and Healer) as well, and I think they look much better now. Now what's left is the Armour Shop and the Magic Shop (Ultima I+II).--Tribun (talk) 01:11, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Now that these do exists, comes the unenviable work of inserting that in the shop section of the city pages.--Tribun (talk) 12:58, 21 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Since you wondered about the "powder" in guild shops, that's Articles to Negate Time, which during that era was a powder.--Tribun (talk) 18:33, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Aha! So that what it was. I will place it there. Thank you. --Arthgon (talk) 18:35, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

I got around to outfit all named Ultima VII shops (not that many, most things are sold by single NPCs) with the infobox and polished up the articles. Still, maybe you can add a bit to them.--Tribun (talk) 18:26, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Template:Infobox/Shop
What were you trying to do to Template:Infobox/Shop? Maybe I can help. -- Fenyx4 16:13, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I was trying to include the two versions of the tavern; one above will be the original version, directly under the VGA one. With an explanation as well. Something in the trend of how it was done with the NPCS.--Arthgon (talk) 16:30, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Template
Whoa. Hold on. Instead of changing every shop to work with your changes to the template let me just fix the template so the pictures work like they used to. -- Fenyx4 14:53, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Shall I bump up the size of the pics to 250? I agree that it looks better. -- Fenyx4 15:51, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes. That is a better size. --Arthgon (talk) 16:41, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. I also threw in the ability to make an exception as seen here. -- Fenyx4 16:56, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Fellowship Medallion
I just realized we haven't yet added in the trivia sections how the various NPCs of Ultima VII react when you wear a Fellowship medallion (or if there's a difference if when having joined, or not). I stubmled over this oversight when talking to Chantu when wearing an medallion. I thought I better tell you this.--Tribun (talk) 15:55, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
 * That's is good point. I knew that there was something missing, while I found a Fellowship medallion in the secret encampment of the Goblins, but because I was working on recoding the Infobox/Shop and creating its variants of different games from scratch, that I forgot all about it. Yes. Short-term memory is the first thing to go. If my memory is correct, I met one NPC who says nicer things about them if you actually wear the medallion, but who? Yeah. Short-term memory. I will look for him and others who react differently. --Arthgon (talk) 17:32, 2 October 2013 (UTC)