Forum:What spells to merge, and how

This is the continuation of Forum:POLL: Spell article's merging policy. Now we have to decide what and how to merge spells.

What to merge
A list of potential mergers, ignoring UW for now. Noticed that I'm not entirely sure on what to do with spells that are repeated inside U3 itself (divine/arcane versions):
 * Blink (Sosarian), Blink, Teleport. However, there are some differences, but they may be small enough to be discussed inside the article. I'm not sure how Dag Acron and Lib Rec fit here; maybe we will need several separate pages, merge only some of these. Blink (Sosarian) and Dag Acron in one article, for example, but not with the other Blinks.
 * Teleport is quite different from Blink, therefore I wouldn't put them together.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)
 * Ok, Teleport is left separate. Blink (Sosarian) and Lib Rec are already merged. How about Dag Acron? Seems to be a Blink limited to work outside dungeons. Does Blink have any similar limitations, or it is a combination of Dag Acron and Lib Rec (so it can be used inside dungeons and outside of them)?--Sega381 15:11, 15 March 2011 (PDT)
 * Blink in U4 only worked on the overland map; Blink in U5 worked on the overland map AND in combat, but relocated the caster ONLY to a random spot on the battlefield. --polygoncount (Polygon Dragon -==(UDIC)==-) 15:50, 15 March 2011 (PDT)
 * In that case, besides adding those notes to the articles, the only thing we should do would be to add Dag Acron to the Blink article, and leave the Teleport and Lib Rec articles as they are now.--Sega381 17:50, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Create (Sosarian) and Energy Field
 * Ok, sounds reasonable.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Destroy (Sosarian) and Dispel Field
 * Ok, sounds reasonable.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Kill (Sosarian), Kill and Death (though I'm not sure if this last one is more similar to Mass Death) Also, probably Decorp and Excunn.
 * Death does not work like either Kill or Mass Death. Its workings are so unique that it should stay on its own.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)
 * Fair enough. Though I'm curious, what is the exact difference?--Sega381 15:11, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Ladder Up and Upward Movement (and Sur Acron and Rec Su if they are equivalent)
 * Ok, that's true.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Ladder Down and Downward Movement (and Dor Acron and Rec Du if they are equivalent)
 * Ok, that's true.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Magic Missile (Sosarian) (or Mittar) and Magic Missile. However, not sure about Mentar...
 * Seems to be the same.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Unlock (Sosarian) and Open (note that the Sosarian Open seems to be different enough, targeting coffins. Appar Unem seems to be different enough to be separated...)
 * Here I don't know.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)
 * Sosarian Unlock, U4 Open, and Appar Unem are TOTALLY the same thing; Appar Unem just has a chance of failure. --polygoncount (Polygon Dragon -==(UDIC)==-) 14:14, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Light (Sosarian), Light and Light (U9) (and Lorum and Luminae, if they are equivalent)
 * Yes, these seem to be equivalent.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Surface, Sequitu and Xit
 * The effect is pretty much the same.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Sanctu, Heal, Light Heal
 * Yep, these belong together.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Fulgar, Fireball and Fireball (U9)
 * Also no contest.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Alcort, Cure and Cure (U9)
 * No contest.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Great Light, Day, and maybe with Dag Lorum and Sominae
 * Great Light and Day are different. Great Light's only difference to Light is, that it lasts longer, while Daylight is a stronger (brighter version).--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)
 * Ok, so we'll leave them separated.--Sega381 15:11, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Altair, Time Stop and Time Stop (U9)
 * Since the effect is the same, should be done.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Vieda and Peer
 * Should be done this way.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Surmandum and Resurrect
 * I agree.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * We would have to check the effects, but maybe Great Heal with Full Heal
 * No, Great Heal just heals lots of HP, while Full is is, as it says, full. These are different effects.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)
 * I can't confirm the earlier games right now, but in Serpent Isle it does fully restore HP -- I just checked. All the lore quotes would seem to support this, too. --Terilem 14:27, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Charm and Charm (U9)
 * No contest.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Douse and Douse (U9)
 * No contest.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Ignite and Ignite (U9)
 * No contest.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Summon and Summon Demon (maybe)
 * They should be, as in the early incanartions of the spell (U5 and 6), summoning daemons was possible.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Tremor and Earthquake
 * Spell practically the same.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Telekinesis and Telekinesis (U9)


 * Wizard Eye and Wizard Eye (U9)
 * They work pretty much the same.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Lightning and Lightning Bolt
 * No contest.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Magic Storm and Lightning Storm
 * Yeah, these two fit.--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)

Now, this will require people who know what the spell does in each game to help. And the arcane/divine thing in U3 is going to be a pain...--Sega381 12:38, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Added my comments to the various spells. Also, if we put things together, we should as said keep the various ages (Sosarian, Britannia, Ultima IX) strictly apart with completely seperate sections in the same article (actually multiple complete articles in one).--Tribun 14:03, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Yep Tribun. In fact, the idea of the section below, "How to merge", is exactly about this, to see how we would actually separate them inside the article.--Sega381 14:48, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * The ladder up/down spells could be put in their own articles; both allow the same end result, but the placement of a ladder that does not have to be used immediately to ascend/descend is pretty significant. Again, this could just be discussed with in the Up/Down main page, too. --polygoncount (Polygon Dragon -==(UDIC)==-) 14:11, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * I think that the criteria should be "if there is a significant difference in the results of the spell, leave them apart". This would fit the criteria, so we could treat them separately. Or at least start that way, until someone comes up with a better argument.--Sega381 14:48, 15 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Chiming in ridiculously late here, but I agree that this should be the criteria for separation. Case in point: Douse and Ignite. It's like reading the same article twice in both cases, and I don't see any demonstrable reason why the Ultima IX and "Britannian" (wasn't U9 in Britannia as well? But I digress...) instances should be segregated. Heck, there are more differences in the U6 versions of these spells than there are between U7 and U9. --Terilem 22:19, 23 June 2011 (PDT)

How to merge
Maybe some of us could put forth alternatives in sandboxes, on how these spells could be merged while mantaining them in different sections?--Sega381 12:38, 15 March 2011 (PDT)
 * Here's one I did for Energy Field/Create. Pretty self-explanatory: Energy Field.   --polygoncount (Polygon Dragon -==(UDIC)==-) 13:12, 16 March 2011 (PDT)
 * Excellent, that's exactly how I envisioned it.--Tribun 17:03, 16 March 2011 (PDT)
 * It looks good. However, I would add a common intro about the spell. Very minimal, but still. And maybe instead of putting "Britannian" and "Sosarian" in parentheses, we could create a subsections named that way. Something like this maybe?--Sega381 19:35, 16 March 2011 (PDT)
 * Yeah, I definitely like your changes -- makes the Contents look better and more useful, too. --polygoncount (Polygon Dragon -==(UDIC)==-) 19:39, 16 March 2011 (PDT)
 * I thought I'd throw in my two cents too. It diverges pretty heavily from the above though and I may be a bit late to the party. But I prefer the infobox all together and at the top as it's purpose is to be quick and easy for user to locate and parse. I wouldn't want to have to hunt for the infobox I need lower on the page. And I like separating it out by game. I feel like each game has enough unique information to deserve it's own section. Ooo, like who you can buy the spell from in later games. I forgot to mention that. That'd be useful information too.
 * (And I was gonna showcase my new LoreQuotes too. But I don't want people to be prejudiced against it because of that so here is a version with the current LoreQuotes. -- Fenyx4 21:43, 18 March 2011 (PDT)

Nothing against your efford, but it looks somewhat messy and actually things are harder to find in it. I think we should stay with what we already decided.--Tribun 05:05, 19 March 2011 (PDT)


 * What things do you find harder to find? -- Fenyx4 07:01, 19 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Everything. Would I have to read through several articles structures like this, I'd go crazy. As I said, a nice experiment, but not very practical.--Tribun 09:52, 19 March 2011 (PDT)
 * Hmm, yeah, I gotta say, I'm leaning towards the Sega381 version... it's a noble effort to separate out all the different games' info/etc., but with all that separation, it's almost like sliding backwards towards individual pages again. --polygoncount (Polygon Dragon -==(UDIC)==-) 12:24, 19 March 2011 (PDT)


 * Yes, I think I see Tribun's point. It's not that your proposed structure is wrong; in fact, it's the most comprehensive one as it clearly indicates the differences among all games. But it looks a little cumbersome; too many subsections, with not that many content. Maybe, if the spell pages grow enough, we may end up wanting to use this structure. But for now it seems a little like overkill, though I completely understand the reasoning behind it. However, I do like the idea of moving the infobox to the top, merging all the info up there.--Sega381 18:32, 19 March 2011 (PDT)